Charmed Destiny

by Gaboswsttj
Charmed Destiny
Because you asked for it, good versus evil will have a whole new meaning... Coming soon Q1 2011.
Quote: "Please point out these open source places and what icons they are, because most of the icons I see within the game are Chrono Trigger and Pokemon, which as you well know are copy righted."
You're are absolutly correct here. Then I do have to ask, Why are pokemon games listed in the anime section? I haven't quite figured that one out. Last I knew Syc still had the Chrono Trigger base. That may have changed, I haven't logged in in a while, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Quote: "The very first opening sequence when you enter the game was ripped from Xoule's game... The whole "Hey, this is the creator!" Crap... But obviously, it is not using ripped material, just a few things here or there... Or you know... a lot of things here or there...
"

Yes, I saw that too. Once again, that dosn't mean that the whole game is a copy from Xoules.
Quote: "That's called ripping. Xoule made those codes, not Gabo. And there are a lot more ripped codes in there from other games than just that. The one I mentioned about, this one, the one Gabo mentions on his comment in feed back, plus others from what I have seen in the game."
I suppose having snippets of code here and there could be considered ripping. At the same time, we have Pokemon games with Copyrighted sprites, Chrono Trigger icons all over the place, etc. You see, you can't discredit one game for using them when others using them get hosted.
Quote: "It looks different than other Charmed games, because it uses more ripped content from other places to hide the fact that it was ripped... And it doesn't hide it very well. Large obvious places in the game show signs on ripped coding, the icons, some instances on the maps, ETC. I feel this is like a non-argument because it is basically you saying "This game is ripped, but there are some original parts in it as well, so its okay" However, that's not okay. If Gabo has the ability to make some original parts then why not just make a completely original game that doesn't use coding form other sources, or icons for that matter? There are some good aspects of this game don't get me wrong. He went about it in a very interesting way. But it is still a rip."
Yeah, there are several spots where I could say that a code snippet was taken. I also know that there was obvious hard work involved here, and to question a whole source being ripped wouldn't be fair unless you were certain the whole source of such a project was used. When I look at the game, I can't say this is Xoules project, or anyone elses for that matter. I can say I see small parts of code that was coded by Xoule. I also think there is way more original code here than snippets comming from a game that died many years ago. As someone who tries to keep an open mind, I can't call this a rip without obvious proof this all came from Xoule. Let me ask you, can you be 100% sure that most of the code came from Xoules project? Can you even be 80% sure? I wouldn't condem a game unless I had facts saying it was most definatly a rip, and that isn't the case here. As developers, we should be standing back and looking from a distance. Why would we condem a game we are not sure about? I have to say that Charmed Destiny is not a rip of Xoules, I will say that Charmed Destiny may have used code from Xoules project, but not enough to make the entire game.

I'm heading to bed, I'll check here when I come back. Note that I'm not here to cause a big fuss, just giving my opinion.
Well see that's where you are mistaken. To be considered a rip the game doesn't have to be a 100% copy of another source(s), it just has to use ripped material from another source(s) which this game obviously does. There are to many obvious parts in this game that are from Xoule's game or from Rebirth. And that's what truly makes it a rip. If you can log onto the game and say "Hey! That's from Xoule's game, Oh hey that's also from Xoule's game, Hey that is from Rebirth!" then the game obviously isn't original. It doesn't even have enough original parts to pass itself off as its own game. And we aren't talking about little things that only programmers who have used the source codes before for would know about. We are talking about, Large blatant things like the obvious rip of the opening sequence, or the book of shadows, ETC. And looking at the game and having had experience with Syncs source and Xoule's source, I would say that between 70% and 80% of that game has come from both of those sources. And that's just from experience with those two particular games. For all I know, there could be many more examples of ripped content from other source codes, I don't have experience with. As developers we need to seek out examples like these and shut them down! Make people who are using ripped content remove it and make there own original games using there own original coding and icons. Because:

1. No one likes to have their work stolen and passed off by someone else as there own.
2. If you have as you said "added your own original content" then you shouldn't need to rip content from other games and should be able to do it on your own period.
3. We need to send a message to anyone who is ripping anywhere that it is not okay, it is stealing form other peoples hard work, but also in some instances, it is illegally stealing copy righted material which is not only wrong based on the fact that it is stealing in general, but is in-fact illegal.

So yes, I would condemn this game, just like I have the other games I have come across who have ripped materials from other games. And just like many others have done as well. For the better of the BYOND community, and for the better quality of games on BYOND this needs to be done.
Also, to answer your other points.

1.Sync does use Chrono Trigger icons within his game, though slowly he has been adding some new ones as well that aren't chrono.

Do I agree with the usage of those icons? No.

Is it still using copy righted material? Yes.

Did he create the majority of his coding on his own? Yes.

There is a big difference here between him doing the majority of the work and Gabo stealing the majority of the work. As far as BYOND is concerned I assume using some copy righted sprites is not as bad as stealing other peoples coding. A reasonable answer for this is that the company who owns the original icons and concepts can always send BYOND a C&D order to have the game removed for using its copyrighted material (Like has happened with some Anime games already).

As far as Pokemon is concerned. Obviously the people who made the Pokemon games didn't steal the source code from the game boy game and put their name on it. Hence why they are allowed up. The coding is original even if the icons are not (some of these games also offer interesting and new twist to the original games, which change game play making it a new experience). What you are asking, is why are these fangames allowed. Since Pokemon is a fan game. That is a BYOND thing. Just like other anime games are allowed and Charmed is allowed. The use of the copy righted material again, is looked down upon but not stopped unless the owners of that material tell BYOND to shut it down. This does not mean it is okay to do! It just means that:

A. BYOND doesn't edit what we can and can not do with the software, they just protect there site when need be.

B. Your game hasn't been shut down because it hasn't been reported to the original copy right holders yet. Who probably wont be to happy you are stealing there icons or original content.

Does that mean it is okay to steal the coding from other games and use it as your own unless the owners of the games tell BYOND to remove your game? No... Ripping is still wrong regardless. You should not be allowed to steal someone else's work on the notion of "If they don't know then its okay for me to do it"

I was just making a point however that there are a lot of games on here who use completely original icons (which is how it should be) and using copy righted icons, is still illegal.

2.Again, as I said before, the game doesn't have to be a 100% copy in order for it to be considered a rip. The ripping of content itself is enough.

3. Again, using copyrighted sprites is still illegal and wrong, but not looked down upon completely from BYOND. You may notice that none of those games are listed as original though? Because they aren't. Also we aren't talking about sprites we are talking about the hand written coding that was stolen from other games. This is what makes a game a rip. I can't be more clear about this. Although stealing icons form another game can also be considered ripping as well.

4.I answered this in my last reply.

This is not a rip moussiffer, those game you mentioned are rips of this game, since this game was the first of it's kind
and made way for the other charmed games to become popular, this is also THE best charmed game on byond, i've tried them all, and i like this one the best
Are you serious? Seriously... The other games came out way before this one did... Lol. This game came out in 2009... The others have been out since like 2004... This game is not the first of it's kind... Lol.... It isn't even the first rip of its kind...
Moussiffer, You make valid points. Taking bits of code and using them here and there IS still considered ripping. There is no question about that. As a developer I could see that being a problem I would have if it was done to me without permission. I still think a lot of hard work was put in here, reguardless of the code snippets we've seen.

I rest my case here, and await a review like Gabo asked. There isn't muuch I can do but be honest, as I won't lie about what I've seen. Let Charmed Destiny be judged.

Also, Moussiffer, Thank you for your time replying to my comments. Your points are valid, although I think this game should be listed due to obvious effort. Thanks for your input.
KakarottSSJ3 wrote:
This is not a rip moussiffer, those game you mentioned are rips of this game, since this game was the first of it's kind
and made way for the other charmed games to become popular, this is also THE best charmed game on byond, i've tried them all, and i like this one the best

The games that were listed actually were made long before Charmed Destiny. Charmed Destiny came after Jayhawks and Sync's remake, As well as after Xoules project.
besides what does it even matter, let the folks who like this game enjoy it, it shouldn't be taken off byond just because it happens to be a rip, cause then byond itself might as well shut down, since almost all the games on byond ARE rips of some sort
Don't get me wrong, I think it is an interesting take on the Charmed games we see around BYOND (What few are left anyway) I am sure Gabo put some hard work into making it. But I honestly do not feel like enough was done for it to be considered an original game. And I would hope that Gabo in the future would just remove the non-original items and have the game listed. My goal isn't to have the game shut down, but to have the game become original so it can proudly be shown.
It isn't going to be taken down from BYOND, it just wont be listed on the site. People can still access the hub and play the game.
KakarottSSJ3 wrote:
besides what does it even matter, let the folks who like this game enjoy it, it shouldn't be taken off byond just because it happens to be a rip, cause then byond itself might as well shut down, since almost all the games on byond ARE rips of some sort

If if Charmed Destiny does not get listed, people can still enjoy the game.
Moussiffer wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I think it is an interesting take on the Charmed games we see around BYOND (What few are left anyway) I am sure Gabo put some hard work into making it. But I honestly do not feel like enough was done for it to be considered an original game. And I would hope that Gabo in the future would just remove the non-original items and have the game listed. My goal isn't to have the game shut down, but to have the game become original so it can proudly be shown.

This is a good goal to have. In fact, if Gabo wanted, I could help him. As far as I can see from the players standpoint, there isn't a ton to change. I could easily code many of the features like Xoule did by hand. However, if Gabo needs help with something, I'd gladly lend a helping hand. Gabo has obviously tried hard, and I don't mind helping someone who works hard for their dreams.
I think the point here is to not, code in features similar to Xoule's. This is what makes the game look like a rip in the first place. A better idea would be to come up with new and original ways to handle things, and give the game more originality to make it even more special. No one wants to play a game that is exactly like another game. That's why Xoule made his game in the first place. Something that was different from Rebirth and Jayhawk's Charmed. Gabo's game is pretty different form the two, now he just needs to separate the completely.
Moussiffer wrote:
I think the point here is to not, code in features similar to Xoule's. This is what makes the game look like a rip in the first place. A better idea would be to come up with new and original ways to handle things, and give the game more originality to make it even more special. No one wants to play a game that is exactly like another game. That's why Xoule made his game in the first place. Something that was different from Rebirth and Jayhawk's Charmed. Gabo's game is pretty different form the two, now he just needs to separate the completely.

Point made, and I understand. I'm willing to personally help Gabo at this point if he needs it. I have a few new ideas of how to do things, to make it different than the most common ideas here.

At this point I think Gabo's waiting for judgement to pass, and go from there. I know he's still working on V1.5.
Let's stop this discussion here people. I appreciate Moussiffer's concern for the game, and I'm still waiting for his evaluation on the game source, so he can propose what things should be changed. I also thank Lavitiz for all the support and everyone else who wants the game back up. Either way, I never made this game so it could become one of the most popular games on BYOND, God! I didn't even make it to gain followers or stuff, I did it because I liked Charmed and I wanted to have a way to play it myself and enjoy with others.

If people can still do this with the game being listed or not (As it's been so far) I really couldn't care less if the game is considered original or not, or if we're listed or not. I did this for fun and I intend to keep it that way.

That said, I only can say that I agree with Moussiffer in that similar features have contributed to the game being considered "Not Original", so I'm willing and I will make the needed adjustments so that the game can be proudly shown. It's not hard to code, and it's definitely not hard for me to be creative and bring new play modes to this growing game.

Again thank you all, and please let's drop the debate for now.
Of course, gabe. Also, be sure to check in on the forums. I have a few updates for you. I also need the executive spell again. I lost my stuff when my savefile bugged.
Gabo, send me a message via byond or msn sometime, please.
i might start hosting it even though its pretty much dead
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