Alathon, I would continue this conversation privately but I don't have BYOND installed on this computer nor do I have any way of contacting you. You're making the assumption that I was referring to you. I think you're a primo moderator, you and Stephen both. The stuff that you guys were trying to do for BYOND are definitely pushing it in a positive direction. It's just kind of ironic that you think I was talking about you.

Alathon wrote:

Oh look, another row of comments from Propaganda/SilkWizard commenting on Moderators. Sorry, I made an assumption too there.

It really gets under your skin when someone calls out Moderators like you out on their failures and you're unable to just lock the thread and delete it, doesn't it? ;)

Besides, when did this become a conversation about my grievances with certain incompetent moderators? If you want to defend digitalmouse then have at it, but don't distract from the issue by changing the subject.

Kelzar actually makes a hilarious observation:
"So the real irony is that a bunch of 18 year olds have matured more than people who are supposed to leading this community."

When he chooses to make posts like this, digitalmouse is no better than the Propaganda crowd.

Stephen001 wrote:

it's kinda natural for groups to look out for their own.

That's a better observation than "all the BYOND moderators jump in to back each other up". The simple truth is that most of the moderators have been around for a long, long time, and they know each other better than they know the new folks. People who know each other tend to look out for each other, regardless of whether they're a moderator or not.

Alathon wrote:

This is coming from the guy who banned me from posting on his blog?

Did I? I can never keep track these days. I likely banned you because I personally don't care to hear what you have to say. Probably no big deal for you, as I doubt that you have much to say to me anyway. The difference is that that is my personal blog, and not a place for community discussion.

The BYOND forums still masquerade as a venue for community discussion, but are in reality dominated by the inconsistent whims and personal feelings of people like you. If you were intellectually honest about your methods that would be one thing; but you're not.


SilkWizard wrote:

When he chooses to make posts like this, digitalmouse is no better than the Propaganda crowd.

Alathon wrote:

Except for the severity of the posts in question, the off assumption that digitalmouse somehow 'gets off' on posts insulting others, the total difference in meaning and.. Oh, just about everything.

Funny, because in the preceding paragraph you told me "You seem to get off on trying to bait people though". How is your assumption different than mine? (Hint: it's not!)

In admitting that the difference is a matter of severity, you've conceded the point. The question of severity wouldn't even be relevant if the rest of the factors weren't the same.

SilkWizard wrote:

The BYOND forums still masquerade as a venue for community discussion, but are in reality dominated by the inconsistent whims and personal feelings of people like you. If you were intellectually honest about your methods that would be one thing; but you're not.

I can't find anywhere, in the history of my time at BYOND, where I've ever shed dishonest light on my methods as a Moderator. I'm about as honest as I can get, I think. And I've always answered when and if someone has questioned my actions. Including when you did.

Moderating is one of those 'damned if you do, damned if you dont' deals. And if it bothered me, then I suppose I'd have stopped contributing to that a long time ago (say, 6 years ago or so).

SilkWizard wrote:

When he chooses to make posts like this, digitalmouse is no better than the Propaganda crowd.

Alathon wrote:

Except for the severity of the posts in question, the off assumption that digitalmouse somehow 'gets off' on posts insulting others, the total difference in meaning and.. Oh, just about everything.

Funny, because in the preceding paragraph you told me "You seem to get off on trying to bait people though". How is your assumption different than mine? (Hint: it's not!)

Its not - But then after the assumption was made digitalmouse clearly clarified that point. Which was promptly ignored, and the individuals in question chose to continue that line of thought.

In admitting that the difference is a matter of severity, you've conceded the point. The question of severity wouldn't even be relevant if the rest of the factors weren't the same.

You chose to select the very first thing I mentioned, and then totally disregard the rest of the sentence?

Word choice, author intention, subject at hand, etc. all matter and factor into how you as a human being percieve things. None of the previously mentioned are 'optional' for perception, although they may be optional for sake of moderation. Intent and word choice and subject are however not.

oy! i cycle across Germany for a few days and come back here to find all sorts of silly bickering amongst yourself in a post that, at best, reveals the lack of effort on the part of the subject of that post.

you could have at least stayed on topic, instead of filling up the thread with this babbling.

Silkwizard: I receive stupid emails from people constantly, both in relation to my BYOND endeavors and my YouTube videos. I either give these types of people a simple one-sentence reply, or I ignore them.

same here. if you note, the core of my long answer was one sentence. I don't count the 'you fail' part, as it is pure opinion.

Silkwizard: If your goal was to correct or help the person, you would have sent a private reply.

no, I *would* not. why should general laziness and lack of effort be any less exposed than any other internet failing?

Silkwizard: Instead you ridiculed this individual publicly, because you get some sort of strange pleasure (or self-esteem boost) out of doing so.

first off, i will agree that 'you fail' might be construed as ridicule, yet the statement is accurate: he failed at doing the bare minimum of reading or research.

secondly, i've already said that i take no pleasure out of doing it. you can continue to claim i get some pleasure out of it, but that does not make it so. in fact i am more likely to be disappointed, or even a little bit angry when people blatantly ignore what is in front of their nose, or just refuse to take the time to *read*.

Silkwizard: It's not like this is a new thing for you; you have been making these kinds of blog posts for awhile.

and probably will continue to do so as long as people do stupid things like this. the only thing I should be more careful with is to post these kinds of entries on my personal blog, not the digitalBYOND one. it is my own mistake that i freely admit to, and it was unprofessional to have posted it here. the post has been edited to remove the 'you fail' part. this is why i earlier commented about the ability to move blog posts to other blogs.

Silkwizard: you are merely making a spectacle of you own shortcomings and insecurities.

silly comments like that are so tiring to hear, especially when people make ridiculous attempts to categorize me based on so little knowledge about me.

i am definitely *not* insecure in anything related to this post/thread, or to BYOND, or in my penchant for pointing out the laziness of others.

hell, it's not insecurity, it's more like being anal-retentive about stupid and/or lazy people. and the shortcomings that i do have, have nothing to do with this whole topic.

Kalzar: Honestly, you guys all need to grow up, some of you are older than most of the community. Digi, you're like 50, come on, do you really get joy from making fun of kids almost 1/5 your age?

so instead of reading where i said "no i don't" and accepting for what it is since i have no reason to be 'joyous' about the state of how people use the internet, you choose instead to jump on the little bandwagon of finger-wagging. which is funny considering your own background.

and for the record, i'm 41. certainly not the oldest on BYOND, but possibly the oldest in this thread.

age has little to do with pointing out something wrong in the world.

People wont learn unless you humiliate them in public. It's that simple.

If one were to thin digi's arguments down to only the logical responses, they would lose about 80% of their volume. ;o

...Actually, let's do that right now. We'll take a look at the argument I put forth, and your response-- and we'll examine how it falls apart when not puffed up with ridiculous insults.

If you purportedly do not enjoy ridiculing him in public, why did you make this a public response?

people who are obviously lazy and/or do not take even the minimum amount of time required to actually *look* at a website, then make a post oblivious to information right in front of their friggin' nose (as the previous blog post was), should not be ignored. The internet is, in general, so easy to use that BOSStman should have no problem in finding out very quickly that the service was down and not taking any new accounts.

So... how does that answer my question? Not anywhere in your response to this question do you explain why it was made public.

...why were you so snarky and mean towards the person and include his personal message?

I was snarky in using 'You fail' because, as you should know from flailing about dictionary references, I was annoyed at the poster (snarky: Snide and sarcastic; usually out of irritation). Your use of the word confirms that I was not happy, gleeful, joyous, or any other positive adjective when making the blog post.

You don't seem to understand-- the idea I put forth is that you were snarky when writing the post, but bashing this kid was a carthasis and made you feel much better afterwards.

I'd like to introduce you to a concept which you may have unknowingly invoked when you said you don't enjoy openly ridiculing him:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie

Oh please. There is no lie here. Far from it. Since I don't have a history of making lies here, you fail at trying to make some sort of weak connection between a non-existent 'happy emotional state' when posting blog entries and someone too lazy to do a little reading.

You do, however, have a tendency to to flip to a ridiculously overaggressive, profanely insulting side when someone annoys you. I've seen it first-hand, and it's visible in these comments. It's an issue you need to deal with if you expect people to see you as a mature adult, rather than some guy who just never managed to grow up and still throws around immature insults at people for the slighest offense.

Okay. So this hits about a 100 on the stupid scale of stupid internet phenomena. Lets see now:

Zaole wrote:

...Actually, let's do that right now. We'll take a look at the argument I put forth, and your response-- and we'll examine how it falls apart when not puffed up with ridiculous insults.

Insinuation. Hypocrisy. Oh, irony?

Zaole wrote:

So... how does that answer my question? Not anywhere in your response to this question do you explain why it was made public.

Except for the fact that the entire paragraph addressed that. He even provided a dumbed down version.

Zaole wrote:

You don't seem to understand-- the idea I put forth is that you were snarky when writing the post, but bashing this kid was a carthasis and made you feel much better afterwards.

Insinuation. Repeatedly rebutted by the OP, so why does it keep being brought up? Are you a psychiatrist, do you have magic tingly internet senses? I happen to be sitting next to Digitalmouse since he decided to come over to my apartment and beat my skull in with MVC/MVP design patterns. He's not smiling about flogging some kid in public, because thats an issue of perception.

You do, however, have a tendency to to flip to a ridiculously overaggressive, profanely insulting side when someone annoys you. I've seen it first-hand, and it's visible in these comments. It's an issue you need to deal with if you expect people to see you as a mature adult, rather than some guy who just never managed to grow up and still throws around immature insults at people for the slighest offense.

Hows ridiculous overexaggeration sound? Are we talking about the same post? And you really should be clarifying here: You can't possibly mean 'people', you should be saying 'I'. Because by god, I'll eat a baby kitten if a majority of the internet would even shrug an eyebrow at something like this.

You're going all crazy on digitalmouse for what is, at best, a mild insult by todays standards. In the world the rest of us live in, this constitutes not some emotional trauma nor some life-defining moment where digitalmouse is suddenly reduced to 'angry old man' in everyones eyes, but merely another passing irrelevant moment where someone happened by a thread and went, 'Oh! Chance to try and play elitist! I'll do it!'. Its rather like schoolyard mentality - Where the kids too shy to bully others see one person doing it, then spend the rest of their time trying to find a victim so they can finally excersize their newfound prowess by proclaiming power. Spartans, TO WAR!

This is how interesting the OP post ranks on the scale of 'oh dear no' internet posts:

http://www.wailoong.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/ sleepy-kitten-01.jpg

And *yes*, I'm doing this to publically humiliate. Because I do believe in the fact that almost no one will care, and you browse the internet so you should probably be able to handle it. See, you're not dead - Its a miracle. The sky has not fallen, and no kittens have died either. Yet.

Alathon wrote:

Okay. So this hits about a 100 on the stupid scale of stupid internet phenomena. Lets see now:

Zaole wrote:

...Actually, let's do that right now. We'll take a look at the argument I put forth, and your response-- and we'll examine how it falls apart when not puffed up with ridiculous insults.

Insinuation. Hypocrisy. Oh, irony?

It's not an insinuation because I go on to explain it. Do you know what the word you're using means?

If you feel that saying digi's insults are ridiculous is, in and of itself, a ridiculous insult, then sure, I'm being hypocritical. Calling out both hypocrisy and irony is a bit redundant, though.

Zaole wrote:

So... how does that answer my question? Not anywhere in your response to this question do you explain why it was made public.

Except for the fact that the entire paragraph addressed that. He even provided a dumbed down version.

Care to point out where he addressed that?

Zaole wrote:

You don't seem to understand-- the idea I put forth is that you were snarky when writing the post, but bashing this kid was a carthasis and made you feel much better afterwards.

Insinuation.

Yes, of course it's insinuation- that's the whole idea. I'm insinuating that he gets joy out of bashing others, with my evidence being his public bashing of others. No news here.

Repeatedly rebutted by the OP,

You can't rebut a hidden emotion (or lack thereof).

so why does it keep being brought up? He's not smiling about flogging some kid in public, because thats an issue of perception.

It is in fact an issue of perception, and I'm merely voicing my perception.

Hows ridiculous overexaggeration sound?

Insinuatory? Hypocritical? Ironic? ;P

Are we talking about the same post?

Actually, I was more speaking along the lines of my personal experiences with digi spewing profane language in other instances, not this one. I should have clarified on that part.

And you really should be clarifying here: You can't possibly mean 'people', you should be saying 'I'. Because by god, I'll eat a baby kitten if a majority of the internet would even shrug an eyebrow at something like this.

You've got me here; the majority of the public really doesn't care when one person who's normally a pleasant guy acts out in an immature way.

You're going all crazy on digitalmouse for what is, at best, a mild insult by todays standards. In the world the rest of us live in, this constitutes not some emotional trauma nor some life-defining moment where digitalmouse is suddenly reduced to 'angry old man' in everyones eyes, but merely another passing irrelevant moment where someone happened by a thread and went, 'Oh! Chance to try and play elitist! I'll do it!'. Its rather like schoolyard mentality - Where the kids too shy to bully others see one person doing it, then spend the rest of their time trying to find a victim so they can finally excersize their newfound prowess by proclaiming power. Spartans, TO WAR!

This is how interesting the OP post ranks on the scale of 'oh dear no' internet posts:

http://www.wailoong.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/ sleepy-kitten-01.jpg

And *yes*, I'm doing this to publically humiliate. Because I do believe in the fact that almost no one will care, and you browse the internet so you should probably be able to handle it. See, you're not dead - Its a miracle. The sky has not fallen, and no kittens have died either. Yet.

It was my bad when I said the line about the public caring; I spoke wrong. My position on this whole issue is more along the lines of "digi should be above this kind of behavior, being the person he is", not "this is an atrocity and will scar this kid's life".