ID:132688
 
At the moment games are basically sorted by population, which leaves a large number of rips at the top of the list.

I know this has been suggested in the past, but perhaps a rating system (wherein only approved reviewers could make ratings) and a way to sort by rating would be beneficial to the lesser known but well made games and their popularity.

I know there are plenty of single player games out there that are worth playing, but I don't have the interest to go searching for them.

Just a thought.
Interesting. What would qualify one as an "approved reviewer"? Also, what would prevent them from rating rips positive assuming only members can rate? Or importantly, why leave only members to rate when there's many non-members who would want to promote good games (assuming it would be members only)?
In response to Moonlight Memento
Moonlight Memento wrote:
Interesting. What would qualify one as an "approved reviewer"? Also, what would prevent them from rating rips positive assuming only members can rate? Or importantly, why leave only members to rate when there's many non-members who would want to promote good games (assuming it would be members only)?

Oh I wouldn't put any weight on being a BYOND member. I'd go with an approved rating team selected by either Tom / Lummox themselves, the BYOND forum moderators, or a team selected by the forum moderators.
In response to AJX
The BYOND forum moderators seem more up-to-task due to (probably) having more freetime than Tom/Lummox. But I do agree this is a good idea, as it could help good games finally get noticed.
By default BYOND games are already sorted by "Popularity", which is basically their rating... Based on how many players have the game favorited and at what rank.
This topic got slightly derailed...

Anyway: I personally feel that 'professional' (k, as close as we get here) ratings would reflect very differently than public opinion.

I am in no way suggesting that the current system be overwritten or even changed, only another option be applied for those of us who like to be more informed than 'what do all the 14 year olds like this time of year?'
In response to AJX
AJX wrote:
Anyway: I personally feel that 'professional' (k, as close as we get here) ratings would reflect very differently than public opinion.

I don't even think there needs to be a "professional"/official system added. Just instead of (or in addition to) the games being a rated by a popularity contest; they should be rated something like YouTube videos (5 Stars Yey). Easily accessible to all users viewing them at any time.
Having official reviewers here on BYOND would most likely just lead to biased and inaccurate ratings anyway.
This could work to our advantage, or our demise. There are supposedly supposed to be "specific reviewers" to determine if a game should be published? This would make things completely biased. Now, seeing all these rips ranked so high doesn't exactly sit well with me, but if it's what the players like, then so be it. The rankings are based off of what the players like, and apparently the players like the rips. All this means is original game developers have to work harder to show these gamers a more exciting virtue of BYOND than your everyday rip. Also, you obviously aren't portraying yourself as someone who'd like to help the community by insulting the younger gamers of BYOND. Everybody gets a say, whether you like it or not.

Side-Note: I haven't read any of the other comments, so I may have said some things that were already said. If so, just reply saying I'm an idiot.
In response to AJX
AJX wrote:
Oh I wouldn't put any weight on being a BYOND member. I'd go with an approved rating team selected by either Tom / Lummox themselves, the BYOND forum moderators, or a team selected by the forum moderators.

Who am I to say a game is good for other people? If I like a game, I've already favourited it, same with every other forum moderator. An individual group of users will end up using their own judgement and the results would be incredibly biased, no matter how much they claim they aren't.

Fact of the matter is, the games that are listed up the top have the most supporters. This is a fact of life, and suffers from the same pros and cons every other system that uses it's members to base popularity does. That is, the majority group wins. If you guys don't like this, invite new non-anime interested users into BYOND, get them to buy memberships and add some more variety into the proverbial pool of favourites.

Furthermore, everyone has different tastes, I don't care for most games on BYOND. A lot of people still think they're good, so they must have something going for them. This is mostly a matter of taste, anyone with an aversion to anime clearly thinks that the anime games should be listed lower than the original games regardless of whether or not the anime games listed are 'rips' or not. And the anime fans clearly think the anime games should be above the original games for the exact same reason, because those are the games people prefer.

If you want to make BYOND a better place, make more and interesting games, raise the minimalist game bar higher and spend more time developing and less time complaining there's no games.
In response to AJX
AJX wrote:
This topic got slightly derailed...

Yeah, sorry about that, completely skipped over that the first time around.

--

I removed the subtle flames and arguments that seemed more personal than about the topic in general. One or two informative posts may have been lost, but they were caught in the crossfire.

Please keep to the topic at hand and leave your petty (and in some cases, subtle) insults out of the forum. Thanks.
AJX wrote:
At the moment games are basically sorted by population, which leaves a large number of rips at the top of the list.

The only reason I can think of why rips are at top of population lists is because they bribe the community.
"Fastest training on BYOND!"
"Easy ranking!"
"New map!"
"Hey look guys, we added 1 more thing that the source code didn't have! So, we aren't a rip anymore, yay!" >_>

It does get aggravating trying to find a decent production.
However, it's only competition. Pure developers need to see it as an obstacle in the road to greatness. An easy obstacle I might add.
From beta testing of a very small project with only a 20x20 map, melee-fighting, and 4 turf icons... I found comments such as "This game is going to be awesome." and etc.
It's only a matter of time. The big time developers just don't want to rush their projects out. Otherwise, you'd see those petty rips losing major player counts.
In response to Maximus_Alex2003
Maximus_Alex2003 wrote:
AJX wrote:
At the moment games are basically sorted by population, which leaves a large number of rips at the top of the list.

The only reason I can think of why rips are at top of population lists is because they bribe the community.
"Fastest training on BYOND!"
"Easy ranking!"
"New map!"
"Hey look guys, we added 1 more thing that the source code didn't have! So, we aren't a rip anymore, yay!" >_>

Most new blood comes to BYOND as a result of their friend telling them about a specific game, and to come play it with them -- unsavory games gain "majority" popularity simply due to this. This same reason is also why I think that how the games are ranked are of little consequence.
In response to Tiberath
Tiberath wrote:
Who am I to say a game is good for other people?

Part of being a good moderator is being able to apply unbiased judgement. That also serves well in rating games according to a preset scoring system. :)

If you want to make BYOND a better place, make more and interesting games, raise the minimalist game bar higher and spend more time developing and less time complaining there's no games.

Ouch?

A wise person one said "Please keep to the topic at hand and leave your petty (and in some cases, subtle) insults out of the forum. Thanks.". It could just be me but that seemed a bit offensive, and unjustified.

For starters, I never once said there weren't games on BYOND. In fact, I said quite the contrary. I believe there are many good games on BYOND, just most of them are hidden in the shadows behind the daunting figure of the anime monster. That was the basis behind this suggestion, to allow good games to come into the light without having hordes of people already interested.

I understand many people complain about there not being enough good games, which is probably why you jumped so defensively here, but this is not one of those situations.
In response to Dark Prince X
Dark Prince X wrote:
This could work to our advantage, or our demise. There are supposedly supposed to be "specific reviewers" to determine if a game should be published? This would make things completely biased.

That is why I nominated the forum moderators. They are a very unbiased group of people. Makes for very steady and well rounded reviews.

Now, seeing all these rips ranked so high doesn't exactly sit well with me, but if it's what the players like, then so be it. The rankings are based off of what the players like, and apparently the players like the rips.

Something that was lost in the flameyness (I think), is the point that I'm not suggesting the existing system be modified or removed at all. I am merely suggesting an alternative be implemented that allows for less publicly known game to get attention.


All this means is original game developers have to work harder to show these gamers a more exciting virtue of BYOND than your everyday rip. Also, you obviously aren't portraying yourself as someone who'd like to help the community by insulting the younger gamers of BYOND. Everybody gets a say, whether you like it or not.

Fact of the matter is, certain types of games will always hold the top spots, and that will never change even when the top spots aren't held by anime games. This system would be important whether the top slots were excellent games or not.

Side-Note: I haven't read any of the other comments, so I may have said some things that were already said. If so, just reply saying I'm an idiot.

No worries at all, bringing up good points (even if repeatedly, which you didnt anyway) is never a bad thing.
In response to AJX
AJX wrote:
Part of being a good moderator is being able to apply unbiased judgement. That also serves well in rating games according to a preset scoring system. :)

Unbiased judgement to people who may or may not be doing bad things, and dealing out punishments yes. But there's no one I'm every going to be able to say Game A is better than Game B. If the forum moderators decided on which games were the best (which we have anyway, as we all have our own favourites selected) you can pretty much kiss BYOND Anime goodbye, which is definitely not unbiased.

That, and there's no way you're going to get us to even bother trying to play every game out there. I wont login to an anime game (outside of test cases in BYOND Help) that isn't DBO II, I don't play strategy games and I really only play RPG games to give feedback to the creators, I never hang around for any notable period of time.


Ouch?

You mistake observation for hostility, my words weren't meant to be taken with a hostile tone.


A wise person one said "Please keep to the topic at hand and leave your petty (and in some cases, subtle) insults out of the forum. Thanks.". It could just be me but that seemed a bit offensive, and unjustified.

Psh, that guy wasn't wise, he has no idea what he's on about. He just likes to sound intelligent while at the same time biting his lower lip and hoping no one calls him on it. You should totally belittle that guy whenever you see him.

For starters, I never once said there weren't games on BYOND. In fact, I said quite the contrary. I believe there are many good games on BYOND, just most of them are hidden in the shadows behind the daunting figure of the anime monster. That was the basis behind this suggestion, to allow good games to come into the light without having hordes of people already interested.

The reason they aren't "coming to light" is because there isn't hordes of people interested. The system works, it's just that the majority of users are anime fans. The only fair way to resolve this is to bring in more non-anime fans to rank non-anime games.

Or the non-anime games can use what is generally considered to be a deplorable method of scoring votes to balance the scheme by offering perks for ranking their non-anime game. Which is more than easy for anyone who can use format=text. =)

I understand many people complain about there not being enough good games, which is probably why you jumped so defensively here, but this is not one of those situations.

Perhaps the comments of the two large subthreads I deleted were too close to my mind at the time. Regardless, what I said wasn't in any way hostile (you'll know it when I'm being hostile, don't you worry ;)) and I apologise if it seemed as such.
In response to Tiberath
Psh, that guy wasn't wise, he has no idea what he's on about. He just likes to sound intelligent while at the same time biting his lower lip and hoping no one calls him on it. You should totally belittle that guy whenever you see him.
Really, who was this?



Unbiased judgement to people who may or may not be doing bad things, and dealing out punishments yes. But there's no one I'm every going to be able to say Game A is better than Game B. If the forum moderators decided on which games were the best (which we have anyway, as we all have our own favourites selected) you can pretty much kiss BYOND Anime goodbye, which is definitely not unbiased.
BYOND Anime is quite biased. If it isn't DBZ/Naruto/Bleach, they don't care. At all.
In response to Moonlight Memento
Moonlight Memento wrote:
Really, who was this?

It was a joke.

BYOND Anime is quite biased. If it isn't DBZ/Naruto/Bleach, they don't care. At all.

And if it is anime, I don't care, at all. The non-anime fans are just as biased as the anime fans. Only there's more of them than us.

Also, can you please leave a gap between your text and those you quote. I nearly deleted your post because I figured you were just quoting two of my paragraphs without adding substance. I only noticed at the very end there was text there.
In response to Tiberath
Also, can you please leave a gap between your text and those you quote. I nearly deleted your post because I figured you were just quoting two of my paragraphs without adding substance. I only noticed at the very end there was text there.
Is this better? Putting more space makes the post look like a train wreck.
In response to Tiberath
Tiberath wrote:
Unbiased judgement to people who may or may not be doing bad things, and dealing out punishments yes. But there's no one I'm every going to be able to say Game A is better than Game B. If the forum moderators decided on which games were the best (which we have anyway, as we all have our own favourites selected) you can pretty much kiss BYOND Anime goodbye, which is definitely not unbiased.

If you were given strict guidelines to adhere to and a scoring system then your loathing wouldn't matter.

That, and there's no way you're going to get us to even bother trying to play every game out there. I wont login to an anime game (outside of test cases in BYOND Help) that isn't DBO II, I don't play strategy games and I really only play RPG games to give feedback to the creators, I never hang around for any notable period of time.

This I can't argue with. And this also negates the point of any further discussion because it brings up the biggest and most un-contradict-able (uncontradictable isn't a word? WTF?) problem there is: You guys shouldn't need to waste more of your time doing something that doesn't benefit you.

Ouch?

You mistake observation for hostility, my words weren't meant to be taken with a hostile tone.

Duly noted. Some study done by some people somewhere said that 80% of the time people could not interpret the appropriate tone used through non verbal communication. Another study said 92.89% of percentages are made up on the spot.

Psh, that guy wasn't wise, he has no idea what he's on about. He just likes to sound intelligent while at the same time biting his lower lip and hoping no one calls him on it. You should totally belittle that guy whenever you see him.

Ah. A sin that I believe all of us enjoy indulging in. Some just get away with it better than others. I will commence the belittling when I find appropriate ammunition to do so with.


The reason they aren't "coming to light" is because there isn't hordes of people interested. The system works, it's just that the majority of users are anime fans. The only fair way to resolve this is to bring in more non-anime fans to rank non-anime games.

This will never be true for most single player games because people like me never bother surfing the HUB in its entirety, but rather look at the games with the most players in them. Then they cry and go repeatedly to face-grounds until they forget that all of the top games are completely uninteresting.

Or the non-anime games can use what is generally considered to be a deplorable method of scoring votes to balance the scheme by offering perks for ranking their non-anime game. Which is more than easy for anyone who can use format=text. =)

Bad plan. Bad people. Slay faces. Etc etc.

I understand many people complain about there not being enough good games, which is probably why you jumped so defensively here, but this is not one of those situations.

Perhaps the comments of the two large subthreads I deleted were too close to my mind at the time. Regardless, what I said wasn't in any way hostile (you'll know it when I'm being hostile, don't you worry ;)) and I apologise if it seemed as such.

The parenthesis in the above paragraph concerns me.

Anyway, no harm no foul. No worries. I can't think of any other idioms that use 'no' that would apply in this situation. Oh wait, no problem. Mmkay now I'm out.

GG bad suggestion thread. -.-
In response to Moonlight Memento
Moonlight Memento wrote:
Is this better? Putting more space makes the post look like a train wreck.

It's better because I can tell your text from mine. But I do disagree with the thought that it looks like a train wreck. The standard for this forum is to leave a gap in quoted text, as that's how these kinds of forms operate. (Without that fancy BBC quotation stuff that just looks ugly.) No worries though, as long as I (and others) can tell the difference between your text and others at a glance there shouldn't be a problem.
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