At which point, it is usually best to quit posting on that thread.

See, this is my point all along. Your surprised I had never heard of 1984. Sure, I've heard of the ideas the book covers. But I've never (to the best of my knowledge) heard any direct reference to the book. What turned this thread into a straight out flame was that fact that, rather than accept that 'heck, maybe it isnt as well known as I thought', you (not you specifically) instead tried to imply the book was some great thing I couldnt have possibly not heard off. You tried to tell me what I did and didn't know. Of course I'm going to react to this. You dont like it when people tell you what you know. See look, you probly just got a little miffed at that. And that.

Well, that's your interpretation. I never saw anyone accepting the fact that 'heck, maybe it isn't as well known as I thought', and you know why? Because there wasn't ever any evidence that it actually wasn't. I'm going to assume that no one in this discussion would actually be so naive to think that the average person out on the streets would be well learned in 1984, whether they're in America or New Zealand; the average person out on the streets isn't actually much of a literary scholar. We're talking about an academic subject here, and academia is a pretty globalized institution--some oppressive governments may attempt to suppress academics, but those maverick intellectuals who attempt to go against the government are going to strive to be as close as possible to the rest of the world's academic body of knowledge.

What I think turned the discussion into an argument was the fact that you jumped on the opportunity to assert your independence. First a few people made obscure references to 1984, which confused you, so a few people made obscure suggestions to read it. When it became clear that you hadn't heard of it, they got a bit more direct. You've asserted that you caught on that they were talking about some book titled "1984" by this point, so obviously no one was presuming overmuch in their suggestions that you read it. Now, by the American definition, a reasonable person would say to themselves, "Hmm, apparently there's a book out there titled 1984 which is pretty well known," and continue about their business--they might read it, they might not. You, on the other hand, refused to acknowledge its existence and started babbling incoherently about mating rituals. Since you were joshing around, I joshed back, and from then on you adamantly refused to believe that the book could be anything but a European-American phenomenon. The only evidence you ever provided for this assertion was twofold:

1.You hadn't heard of the book.
2.You asked several people and most of them hadn't heard of it.

I'd be willing to wager that you could name a good number of books that I haven't heard of, and that most of the guys in the dorms here haven't heard of. But I wouldn't be willing to sit there and argue that it was therefore "only important in New Zealand" until I was blue in the face just on that basis. If you had, say, polled New Zealander English/lit teachers and a significant number of them had never heard of the book, then you'd have a point. If anyone had ever based their argument on the (vastly untrue) grounds that 1984 is known by every American man, woman, and child over 12, then you'd have a point. If you had credentials as one of New Zealand's foremost literary scholars, you'd have a point. You didn't have a point. This argument stemmed from a suggestion. Several people suggested you read a book, and you stubbornly and pointlessly refused to have anything to do with it, despite--or rather, because of--the fact that you had no prior knowledge of the book. The only demands that anyone ever made that you read it were based on the fact that you insisted on belittling it and classifying it as "wierd" and "foreign" without having the slightest clue as to what it was.

Foomer wrote:

I got the impression the original post translated to "Shut up!"

So did I.

.....

*Dosn't know if I should laugh, if I should just be quiet, or if Gughunter was high when he posted*

Gughunter wrote:

And no, I'm not saying I was wrong. Just that continuing is pointless.

Fine, fine, but do try to read 1984. At the very least, read the chapter where Winston Smith recovers the seventh Dragon Ball. It's terrifying.

Heh. The books reference though. Can't get it out. Guess I'lll have to go sit in the library.

Gughunter wrote:

Heh. The books reference though. Can't get it out. Guess I'lll have to go sit in the library.

Wacky! I'd be interested to hear the librarian's reasoning for classifying a modern novel as "Reference."

In the States many places have interlibrary loan programs--you can request books to be shipped from other libraries, free of charge, if they're not stocked at the local site. If you have something similar where you are, it might be worth a try (if for no other reason than to wave it in the librarian's face and say "Guess I'll go read my reference book about an imaginary world now"). :)

I suppose I could just look in a different library. :)

It might be reference cause its so popular ya know.

nice poem!