CaptFalcon33035 wrote:

I dislike the so-called minorities in America that get scholarships or free admission to college because they are black or hispanic. They aren't even a minority anymore. Whites are in America.

That's an interesting claim. Do you have anything to back that up? I've never heard of it.

CaptFalcon33035 wrote:

They aren't even a minority anymore. Whites are in America.

White alone
211,460,626
Black or African American alone
34,658,190
Hispanic or Latino
35,305,818

Whites are clearly not a minority.

Source: http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ DTTable?_bm=y&-context=dt&-reg=DEC_2000_SF4_U_PCT001:001|002 |004|238;&-ds_name=DEC_2000_SF1_U&-CONTEXT=dt&-mt_name=DEC_20 00_SF1_U_P003&-tree_id=404&-redoLog=false&-all_geo_types=N&- geo_id=01000US&-search_results=01000US&-format=&-_lang=en
http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ DTTable?_bm=y&-context=dt&-reg=DEC_2000_SF4_U_PCT001:001|002 |004|238;&-ds_name=DEC_2000_SF1_U&-CONTEXT=dt&-mt_name=DEC_20 00_SF1_U_P004&-tree_id=404&-redoLog=false&-all_geo_types=N&- geo_id=01000US&-search_results=01000US&-format=&-_lang=en

(As of 2000, I am guessing)

The rest of the post seems to be completely made up. Racial minorities do not get automatic freebies. Their are certain programs designed to remedy decades of discrimination by making sure minorities are not excluded and there are programs set up to help minority and traditionally underrepresented applicants get funding, but they are competitive.

Minorities do get extra scholarships, and, in some cases, are even accepted to college just because of their race. (This is called "affirmative action") Like I've said before, you can be given scholarships for being an illegal immigrant. You can be given scholarships for being a part of any minority. You can't be given a scholarship (that I know of) for being white.

--Vito

I don't know about you, but if I came across an illegal immigrant who wanted to go to school and learn I can't say I'd be willing to give him the boot.

Not exactly. In fact, you *cannot* legally admit someone over another on the basis of race. It is discriminatory. Affirmative action is a system designed to address pervasive patterns of discrimination. Generally it involves making sure minorities are *considered* for admissions, not guaranteeing it.
Like I've said before, you can be given scholarships for being an illegal immigrant

Affirmative action programs sometimes do require acceptance based on race. A relatively well-known university near where I live recently, or still does, have such a program. If I remember correctly, someone sued on the basis of this program. I don't, however, remember who won the case.

Again, this seems to be an unsubstantiated statement. I've never heard of the Generic Minority College Fund where the only requirement is to be non-white.

No, but there are hundreds of foundations to give money to minorities. Each has its own favorite minority, from Native Americans to African immigrants. I've never seen one that donates money to white males for college.

It's called 200 years of favorable treatment. It's better than a scholarship.

So, because someone 100 years ago who wasn't related to me except that he's white got favorable treatment over others on the basis of race, I get discriminated against? Shouldn't we get past race? If you discriminate against a particular group , no matter what group that is, it's wrong.


--Vito

But giving him scholarships that legal Americans can't get? I think that's called "incentives to break the law."

--Vito

You can't be given a scholarship (that I know of) for being white.

It's called 200 years of favorable treatment. It's better than a scholarship.

One word -- [I like to use profanity].

These days, it seems that every time a white person disagrees with or opposes a prominent member of a minority, such as Mexican president Vicente Fox (Who is a member of a group who are a minority in America), Congressman William Jefferson (D - Louisiana, took $100,000 in bribes from an undercover FBI agent) or Ray Negan (sp) (Mayor, New Orleans) they are called a raqcist or a bigot as a way to silence an argument.


--Vito

In this case, it's an example of that inecapable truth of humanity: Those who don't learn from their pasts are destined to repeat them.

Luckily for all, it's not nearly as bad as racial divisions up until the sixties.


--Vito

CaptFalcon33035 wrote:

I dislike the so-called minorities in America that get scholarships or free admission to college because they are black or hispanic.

The true issue with affirmative action and so-called racial quotas (if/when they exist) has nothing to do with race. Or, at least it shouldn't have anything to do with race. It's about economic disparity. The fact that race is closely correlated is simply historical. Unfortunately many people are too simple-minded to see this, so they try to make it about race, which upsets all kinds of others.

A far greater percentage of racial minorities than the majority live in poverty due to history. When slaves were released into freedom, they didn't suddenly become as economically prosperous as the white majority. They were given nothing to start with, and were actively held back for over a century. Given these conditions, only the extremely lucky or extraordinary could climb out of their situation and join the economic middle class. The ordinary people in this group were unable to move up because they never gained the knowledge and tools to do so.

People aren't born with the knowledge it takes to be successful -- they must learn it from a good family and a strong support system including schools. That doesn't exist at all in most of these cases, so the cycle perpetuates itself for generation after generation.

Imagine if you'd been born in a crack house with a mother who was constantly on drugs, no family support, gang shootings every other day, no positive role models. Nobody would have taught you the importance of going to school. Nobody would have made you believe you could work hard and do better than this. In all likelihood, unless you were one of those very extraordinary individuals, you would have continued the cycle, creating progeny that were just as ill-equipped to become economically successful as you were. And on and on it goes...

The bleeding hearts see this and say they must help by throwing money at you. Rather than tackle the core issue -- the vicious cycle of bad parents raising kids in poverty to become just like them -- they want to take people who are not prepared and hand them privileges (college, etc) that they didn't earn. The problem isn't that minorities are under represented in college/whatever, it's much deeper than that. It's that these kids aren't being raised from day one to be productive members of society. By the time they're college aged, it's too late. But that doesn't stop the bleeding hearts from trying.

On the other end of the spectrum, the stone cold hearts huff and puff and say it's their own [the minorities'] fault for being too lazy to work themselves out of poverty. I call BS on that too. Most of us are ordinary people. Given that same set of initial conditions, most of us would have done no better than the ordinary people who live in poverty every day. Only the extraordinary rise out of poverty to the middle class, just as only the extraordinary rise out of the middle class to become ultra rich and successful. The rest of us need a support system along the way.

And so the disparity that all these affirmative action and minority groups are really trying to correct is the lack of that support system. Again, the fact that it's strongly correlated with race is purely historical. It's rather unfortunate that most people don't see this, because race is a strong part of our identity and therefore can easily divide us. People incorrectly frame it as a race issue, and it draws a line in the sand where none should be drawn.

Why should we even help the poor at all, when we're doing ok ourselves? I believe it's because it benefits society as a whole, when done correctly. Take away poverty, and you've removed a huge incentive to commit crime. There will always be greedy, nasty, immoral people, but I doubt it's a coincidence that a majority of criminals are poor. Reduce the crime, and everyone wins. Insert more producers into the system, the economy produces more and everyone wins. Sounds like a good deal to me.

The problem is that helping people effectively is hard work. Throwing money at them doesn't work. They'll just sit and wait for more handouts. Effectively helping means catching them early, educating them, training them, and gradually moving them towards self sufficiency. That's hard. Kind of sucks.

Sheesh, I just spent way too much time writing that.

If everyone got free admission to college in America, we'd be teh ru14r of u al!11 Maybe our literacy rate wouldn't be so bad.

This is a separate issue, but the more people we send through college, the less valuable a college degree is. I already see plenty of college graduates who don't understand very simple concepts, can't spell or write well, etc. What was the point of their education, except to get drunk every weekend and get a piece of paper at the end?

It used to be that only the very smartest people went to college. And that was ok. This constant drive towards equality completely ignores the fact that not everyone is equal. Some people are smarter. Some are more gifted artistically. Some are more athletic. Some have it all. And others have to work harder to make up for their natural deficiencies. Or they can choose not to. That's life.

Equality should be about equal opportunity, not equal results. Everyone should have the opportunity to apply for college, but not everyone should or needs to go.

And of course that does tie back into the first issue, because the kids coming out of poverty never had a true opportunity to even be considered for college. Their support system either failed miserably, or was nonexistent long before they were old enough to have a choice in their lives. That's what we should be trying to rectify -- the current disparity in opportunity, not uneven racial distributions or reparations for the distant past.