Complex Robot's Site - All Your Base

All Your Base - Art Obsession? in Design Philosophy

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ID:801623

Jun 6 2012, 7:43 pm

I've noticed a trend over in the Art forums towards people making 'bases,' that is, a naked, bald character in various states of animation. It can then have various clothing items, hair and accessories placed over it for customization.

This is great. It shows people are leaning more towards games where you can customize the appearance of your character down to the last detail.

However, having that customization option seems like something people are doing just because everyone else is doing it. It takes lots of work making art for several different clothing items. This is fine, but I suspect people are focusing too much of their efforts on adding this dress-up game instead of using their time for the core mechanics that make the game.

In a recent post on these forums, an article was linked that talked about how thinking about the game mechanics before the genre was important for a game designer. What I am discussing now is in the same vein as that article.

The majority of the community on BYOND doesn't want to make original games, and instead wants to recreate existing games. This dress-up game philosophy is what has caused our community to be plagued with terrible 'rips' and games that are simply copies or modified versions of existing games.

Please stop making dress-up games and remaking the same game over and over.

Give us originality!

#1 Jun 6 2012, 7:51 pm
A.T.H.K	Like so?

#2 Jun 6 2012, 7:53 pm
LordAndrew	It seems to me like you don't understand game development. Let me break it the process down for you: Making a hub: 20% Creating a base icon: 40% Adding level 10 GM: 30% Getting a host: 10% And that is how a BYOND game is made.

#3 Jun 6 2012, 7:55 pm
Complex Robot	I've got nothing against anime games. It's just become a competition to create the best dress-up game imaginable. I see what you're saying about being 'heavy on attire,' but games are putting way too much time into creating a dress-up game instead of focusing on actual gameplay.

#4 Jun 6 2012, 7:58 pm
A.T.H.K	Being that most of the anime games are "RIP's" game play and everything else is already programmed in for them. So they just make some shirts and pants to finish it off. [EDIT]Oh an maybe a new attack that reboots the world cause that's lulz

#5 Jun 6 2012, 7:59 pm

In response to LordAndrew (#2)

Complex Robot

LordAndrew wrote:

It seems to me like you don't understand game development. Let me break it the process down for you:

Making a hub: 20%

Creating a base icon: 40%

Adding level 10 GM: 30%

Getting a host: 10%

And that is how a BYOND game is made.

I imagine this development sequence has been used since the start of the original Dragonball Zeta and the like. This just shows the huge lack of originality in these games.

#6 Jun 6 2012, 8:05 pm
Oasiscircle	Complex Robot wrote: Give us originality! I'm on it.

#7 Jun 6 2012, 8:12 pm
Kaiochao	Hey now, I think paperdolling is an important social aspect of roleplaying games. Even if your clothing doesn't affect your stats, they are definitely used as a shortcut for people to quickly recognize you without having to mouse over you. DayZ would be so much nicer with a way to differentiate people like that. Although Hazordhu isn't the best role model, the things it does right it does well.

#8 Jun 6 2012, 8:18 pm In response to Kaiochao (#7)
Complex Robot	There are simpler ways to solve this problem, like having your name appear under your character. With the new map_text var, this is easier than ever. If that doesn't suit your game, you can easily provide altered coloration or what-have-you without wasting time making a dress-up game.

#9 Jun 6 2012, 9:26 pm

In response to Complex Robot (#8)

Kaiochao

Of course, the point of a sandbox game is to let the players shape the environment by taking from it and putting it back in a more organized fashion. Why not give the player even more to customize by giving them a sense of individuality while they're away from their stylish homes? It's certainly not a dress-up game, it's so much more than that.

Yet I still don't like Hazordhu very much. It's just all I really have to go on.

#10 Jun 7 2012, 7:24 am

Forum_account

I don't think it's that people lack creativity and just copy the same kinds of games that other people make. People make these "dress up" kinds of games because they're easy to make. People tend to focus on graphics (base icons, title screens, etc.) and maps because those are easy things to work on. It's often the only thing that people are capable of making, so they'd rather spend six months drawing icons and pretending they're making a game than figure out how to actually make one.

Some developers do this inadvertently. They're reasonably competent and have ideas for games, they just don't quite have the ability or confidence to face the project head on. They focus on these easy parts of their game because they're not sure if they have the ability to implement even those easy things - they have to prove to themselves they can make a title screen. You need to have the ability and confidence to say "I know how to make a title screen, I don't need to prove that" or the confidence to say "if I can implement the rest of the game, I can figure out how to make a title screen later", or at least the guts to say "I don't know how I'll code this game but I'll give it a shot and hope it's a good learning experience".

Most BYOND game developers are just completely clueless. They spend three months tweaking their base icon because they think that's what game development is about. These developers know that it's supposed to be hard to make a game, so they make game development hard for themselves so they feel like they're doing it right.

Not only do these habits lead to failed projects, they don't improve the game developer's skills. BYOND has a lot of people who waste tons of time on projects and learn nothing. They never get to the hard part of game development (where you actually have to implement the gameplay, see if it's fun, and find ways to improve it). People know that game development is supposed to be hard so when they get stuck for 3 months working on their base icon or title screen, they assume *that's* the hard part that people talk about when they say "game development is hard".

BYOND has a lot of game developers who act like this, but what's worse is that BYOND has a lot of users who support these kinds of developers and reaffirm their terribly wrong approach to game development. BYOND does a lot of work for you and there are lots of good libraries out there to help. If you've been working on a game for more than 20 hours and it's not playable, there's a good chance you're going about things the wrong way and will never have a playable game.

#11 Jun 7 2012, 7:37 am
Dariuc	What F_A said. o_O

#12 Jun 7 2012, 12:06 pm
ImmeasurableHate	I think having a base is better it allows your character to have a style of your own. bases are good because first you have the option to not look like other people and what not. Id rather play a game with a base then a game with a preset icon looking similar to everyone else in the world.

#13 Jun 7 2012, 1:01 pm

VixiV

I think that so much of this is true (considering that i do pixel art myself :3). Everything i go working for a new guy all they ask for is a base. Then they ask for 700 other clothing for it. People are working to much on making their game look good they don't even care about how it's played. I recently joined a game that had a testing and all they had was a base, some grass everywhere, and the character creation where you add eye colors and stuff. Now the art is good but that's how people test their game nowadays. Or is it just me. . .

#14 Jun 7 2012, 2:26 pm

In response to VixiV (#13)

Vocal_nebula

VixiV wrote:

I think that so much of this is true (considering that i do pixel art myself :3). Everything i go working for a new guy all they ask for is a base. Then they ask for 700 other clothing for it. People are working to much on making their game look good they don't even care about how it's played. I recently joined a game that had a testing and all they had was a base, some grass everywhere, and the character creation where you add eye colors and stuff. Now the art is good but that's how people test their game nowadays. Or is it just me. . .

Couldn't agree more with this.

#15 Jun 7 2012, 2:28 pm
Lugia319	It's pretty much like this. You can have the nicest looking car run poorly, and people will buy it based on looks. You can have the best running car look terrible, and people will turn it down based on looks.

#16 Jun 7 2012, 3:04 pm
ImmeasurableHate	But vixi were your wrong is most pixel artist including yourself when asked to make a building or something you guys always turn it down but are always quick to make a base well atleast thats how I see it.

#17 Jun 7 2012, 3:09 pm In response to ImmeasurableHate (#16)
VixiV	im Quick to make a quick base just to have one but i don't go and get the base clothes pants all the other accessories and test it right away for dumb reasons to show that i can code people putting clothes on.

#18 Jun 7 2012, 3:11 pm
ImmeasurableHate	True clothes should come last but the base is needed to me. look at spirit age there just now adding clothes.

#19 Jun 7 2012, 3:17 pm In response to ImmeasurableHate (#18)
VixiV	Yah because they are practically done they finished bout everything you could ask for a battle system, a BOAT (j/p on this one), skills, and other special features. People now a days Make a base some clothes for it and then a verb that says Attack and they are done -.- nothing unique.

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