Mirror's Edge mini-review in Off Topic

ID:53834
 
Feb 4 2009, 4:57 am (Edited on Feb 4 2009, 5:31 pm)
The bad:

* Falling to your death is un-fun.

* Falling to your death happens a lot.

* Combat is occasionally irritating.

* Checkpoints instead of a proper save system? What is this, a second-rate console port? Oh wait.

* Runner vision (red = interact with me) is sometimes not implemented well. It's not always present, and sometimes it's downright misleading. For example, there's a bit where you're running away from ninjas and a wall highlights red, inviting you to wall-jump up it. I was killed by ninjas several times while trying to follow that instruction. Turns out it's a lot easier (and less lethal) to just climb onto one of the structures next to it and then jump across. The only reason to ever use that wall is if you're on a speedrun, IMO.

* Quicktime Events. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, WHY? Does anyone actually like them?

(For the uninitiated, a QTE is when you're viewing a cutscene and a cue flashes up "press the button now!" and if you fail to press the button immediately - which you will, because the fact that you were watching a cutscene lulled you into a false sense of security - then you are judiciously punished by having to watch the whole boring cutscene again. Because you deserve it. So sayeth the game "designer".)

* Notable lack of pirates, despite suitable dock level.

The good:

* Striking visual design; good aesthetics and theming of environments, nice artistic uses of strong colours, realistic character design. I'll put in a special mention here for Jacknife's swaggering cutscene animations; they sell the character very effectively. (Also, in his final scene, I honestly wouldn't have remembered who he actually was if not for the animations! Seriously. I forgot who Miller was in his final appearance, and his design is fairly striking, up close at least. Though it didn't help that he'd only been seen in cartoon cutscenes before that point.)

* Parkour is fun. When you're not (A) flailing around like a moron or (B) falling to your death.

* Ninjas.

* Really nifty falling-to-your-death visual effect, and the most gruesome bone-crushing impact sound I've ever heard. (Which, although extremely well done, makes falling to your death even less fun than it would otherwise be. But I'm supposed to be talking about good things here.)

* Ninjas!

* Checkpoints are actually reasonably well-implemented, and you do get an enhanced feeling of accomplishment after beating a checkpointed stage. The roof area in the Shard chapter with the snipers comes to mind.

* I honestly applaud the AAA industry for trying something this innovative.


Total points made: 14
Total good: 7
Total bad: 7
Final score: 50%

I enjoyed it anyway. When I wasn't unbearably frustrated.

(Like my scoring system? I made it up on the spot. Hardcore.)
#1 Feb 4 2009, 8:12 am
You put ninjas twice, and replaced the full stop with an exclamation mark, I question your scoring system.
#2 Feb 4 2009, 11:15 am
Yes, any good scoring system should mention ninjas at least THREE times all with exclamation points, 1's, or similar.

I haven't heard great things about this title. Mainly, neat idea but bad execution.
#3 Feb 4 2009, 4:52 pm
I don't get where all this 'falling to your death too much' feedback comes from. My friends suck at Mirror's Edge and they don't fall to their death very often. My main annoyance is that I don't fall to my death. When I fall I land on something and have to climb back up (which is much more annoying!).

Save system? I prefer this. I'll say there are some dumb checkpoints but I think a quicksave type deal would ruin this game. For starters, it's about getting on a path and running it, so beginning again after a fifteen minute break at some random point on the path would be confusing. It's much easier to roll into it. Repeating the problem stunts directly from the part causing me trouble sounds alright in theory, but I think in practice I think I prefer a little buffer between the parts I can do and the parts I can't, even if it is just two jumps.
And of course momentum is key to 99% of the jumps, so I'm sure I'd soon end up saved into a corner. Really, the game is about running the lines not the individual jumps.

I find runner vision works fine until you miss something you were meant to see three jumps back. Ie, you'll jump off a building, run around a corner then climb up something. If you're paying attention you'll notice the part where you climb as you jump off the building, but if you miss it you'll have a hard time seeing it from the area where you ran around the corner.

I agree with the QTE statements though. They either work and they're so easy they're not worth including or they don't work and they're a massive pain in the butt. The big guy annoyed me so much. I've got it down now (don't pay attention to the runner vision, just go when it looks right) but damn it was painful that first time.





I haven't heard great things about this title. Mainly, neat idea but bad execution.

Give it a try. Whether you enjoy the game or not seems to come down to whether your brain is wired in a specific way. Most people can appreciate it for what it is, but get massively annoyed when they can't do something. A lot of the problem points involve reflexes and skill.


[Side note. Next time you're fighting someone in Mirror's Edge, jump away from them, quick-spin, then hit activate.]
#4 Feb 4 2009, 5:31 pm
Acebloke wrote:
You put ninjas twice, and replaced the full stop with an exclamation mark, I question your scoring system.

Nonsense. It's completely objective and you know it!

I've just edited it now because I remembered something else good: I loved the visual design. Jacknife's cutscene animations in particular.


DarkView wrote:
I don't get where all this 'falling to your death too much' feedback comes from. My friends suck at Mirror's Edge and they don't fall to their death very often.

HEY. >:(

It doesn't happen on every single jump, sure, but it does happen just enough to be annoying, and when you get up to a spot in which you fall to your death once, you are likely to do it again. And again, and again, and again, until you figure out through painstaking trial and error what the level designer wanted you to do (which is not always obvious). It's not always clear whether you're falling because you're mistiming something or because you haven't yet hit on the One True Way to get past an obstacle.

Also, I couldn't reliably get the hang of the "cross-jump" (kept falling on my ass because I hadn't got the timing down, and it's difficult to get the timing down when there's no obvious feedback as to what you're timing incorrectly and whether you're doing so too early or too late), and it was a while before I figured out that you were supposed to hold down the jump button to wall-walk. Maybe this was covered in the tutorial, but if so it didn't make enough of an impression, because I got by with shallow jumps off the wall for a long time. Until that suddenly became impossible; cue frustration.


Save system? I prefer this. I'll say there are some dumb checkpoints but I think a quicksave type deal would ruin this game.

I do think you're basically right here, which is why I put it under "good" as well. There do need to be a few more checkpoints in some areas though.


I find runner vision works fine until you miss something you were meant to see three jumps back.

It's variable. Obviously it's placed by the level designers, and so there are inevitable special-case problem areas. Of course, the time one notices it not working is the time one remember more clearly than the times when it enabled one to get past an obstacle course on the first try without having to stop and visually search for the next clue.

The bit that pissed me off the most was squeezing along the occasional small gaps between packages and walls. (The ones similar to ledge-sidling, but without the sheer drop on one side.) The game never actually told you that you could do that, and there was no runner vision to clue you in. I only stumbled into it by accident after many frustrated minutes of trying to jump up the walls (there was a suspicious-looking vent, which turned out to be mere window-dressing).


I agree with the QTE statements though. They either work and they're so easy they're not worth including or they don't work and they're a massive pain in the butt. The big guy annoyed me so much. I've got it down now (don't pay attention to the runner vision, just go when it looks right) but damn it was painful that first time.

That bit only took me a try or two. The first time around I failed because I didn't realise I was supposed to be looking out for QTEs (@#$%!), and the second time I mistimed it.

The final scene though... it's just crap. Really, really crap.


[Side note. Next time you're fighting someone in Mirror's Edge, jump away from them, quick-spin, then hit activate.]

Hmm?
#5 Feb 4 2009, 6:36 pm
Crispy wrote:
DarkView wrote:
I don't get where all this 'falling to your death too much' feedback comes from. My friends suck at Mirror's Edge and they don't fall to their death very often.

HEY. >:(

Sorry, I sort of went over my own head with that statement. I just hear it from everyone but I've never actually seen anyone get annoyed with it.

And again, and again, and again, until you figure out through painstaking trial and error what the level designer wanted you to do (which is not always obvious).

This is where my 'just wired right for the game' statement comes from. The speedrun tracks don't always seem obvious to me, but 99% of the time I just ran through the basic path.

because you haven't yet hit on the One True Way to get past an obstacle.

Heh, when you get into speedruns and time trials you'll see the One True Way is actually the Painfully Long And Slow Way. =P


Also, I couldn't reliably get the hang of the "cross-jump" (kept falling on my ass because I hadn't got the timing down, and it's difficult to get the timing down when there's no obvious feedback as to what you're timing incorrectly and whether you're doing so too early or too late), and it was a while before I figured out that you were supposed to hold down the jump button to wall-walk.

I've got a lot of hours clocked on EA's skate, which has really beefed up my ability here. Hmmm. Perhaps that's why even my friends don't mess up jumps in the way you describe even though they're not very good at the game. We all play skate a lot, so we're all very used to having to line things up and time everything perfectly.



Of course, the time one notices it not working is the time one remember more clearly than the times when it enabled one to get past an obstacle course on the first try without having to stop and visually search for the next clue.

This is why I don't like it being in the reviews. Sure, it's a valid point and it's helpful to deciding whether or not to buy the game, but I feel that knowing that it's there before you start playing it further highlights it.


The bit that pissed me off the most was squeezing along the occasional small gaps between packages and walls. (The ones similar to ledge-sidling, but without the sheer drop on one side.) The game never actually told you that you could do that

Yeah, those suck even when you know they're there. If you know to use it you're probably doing a speed run, and if you're doing a speed run then spending two seconds on a ledge feels like an eternity.
They're covered briefly in the training area, but without runner vision to highlight them it doesn't really help at all. I got stuck in the sewers with the snipers for ages on one of those. I knew they were there but because I was facing away from the area I was trying to get to I'd actually go past it and start shimmying against the next one.



The final scene though... it's just crap. Really, really crap.

After getting stuck on the first one I was an expert by that point. I think I managed to get through that one on the first try.



I loved the visual design. Jacknife's cutscene animations in particular.

Yeah. I don't like the animation style that much but I really liked their use of it.
#6 Feb 5 2009, 11:33 am
hey zup Crisp i played one of your games(your money or your life) lol it was pretty good when are you making a part 2 .... better be making a part 2 lol
#7 Feb 10 2009, 3:55 am
After some practice, with a few time trials under my belt, and after reading some time trial tips, this game suddenly clicked for me. I actually don't mind the first five criticisms on my list (actually four, excluding duplicates) nearly as much now:

* Falling to my death happens less frequently now that I can judge things better and have figured out the cross-jump. (It's a lot easier if you think of it as two actions: Wall-walk first, then Q and jump. And you have to hold the spacebar down until after you've pressed Q. With this and proper wall-walking technique under my belt, everything suddenly becomes way easier.)

* I still die a fair amount in close combat, but I can usually trace my failure to a strategic mistake, so it's not so frustrating (just a little tedious) and it doesn't happen in time trials anyway.

* Checkpoints, as discussed, are actually a good thing overall.

* Runner vision isn't used in time trials so I had to learn to read the environment and judge jumps for myself instead of just looking for the big red siren calls. (The original Greek meaning of "Siren" occasionally applies.) They're still useful in the main game, which I have started re-playing (on Normal, since I would rather not make the combat even more tedious than it already is) but it's best to treat them as hints, not as instructions.

In closing, I no longer have an intense love-hate relationship with this game. I've learned to appreciate it, flaws and all!

---

@Xyberman: That depends. How much are you willing to pay for it? ;-)

I never rule anything out, and I probably will make free games at some point in the future (don't hold your breath though, especially not for sequels); it's certainly much easier than making them for money. (Less polish required, easier publicity, no trying to persuade people to dig out their wallets - which is really really hard, believe me.) But that same reason is why the paid gig is a much more interesting challenge to me at the moment. Also: Paid.

I actually wouldn't want to make a commercial sequel to YMOYL because I don't think it would work as anything but freeware. Nobody would buy it, and quite right too. If I ramped up the production values about a billion notches then that might change, but then it wouldn't be YMOYL. Part of the point is how weird it is; both its unusual visual style, and it's frankly odd plot. Neither of these would sell, but if you took them away then there wouldn't be much of a point to it, and then it wouldn't sell anyway.

Something similar might; I have partially-formed concepts for an expanded universe which could actually work fairly well as an adolescent power-trip anime (hey, this was about 5 years ago!). But... eh. Anime is not my craft (for good reason). I could make a game out of it, but I'm not really interested in the concept right now.

Anyway. I'm glad you liked it.