In response to OneFishDown (#19)
OneFishDown wrote:
Few bands cover songs and do them better than the original, so why do they do it? They like the song! If I really like a particular video game or computer game, I'd try to make a game just like it. I've actually done that on several occasions.

No comment on the other parts (I have no desire to be embroiled in a gigantic flame war right now, thanks =P ), but I agree with this paragraph. I've made (or started to make) several BYOND games based on other games. Thieves is probably the best example. It's inspired by the Thief series, but is different enough (2D instead of 3D, multiplayer-only instead of singleplayer-only, doesn't make any references to the Thief series apart from basic premise and a few of the items) that it can be called a separate game. It's not strictly a "fan game" because it doesn't deliberately use the original series to draw in players.

This isn't to say I support rips (I don't), but just about every game borrows, at least in part, from previous games.
In response to Crispy (#20)
Crispy wrote:
it doesn't deliberately use the original series to draw in players.

Well, despite being a good game, Thief didn't exactly draw in a lot of players itself =P.
In response to OneFishDown (#21)
The original Thief series was actually quite popular. Besides, that's not the point. =P
In response to OneFishDown (#19)
OneFishDown wrote:
So they should disallow all games like any of yours for fear that a better one might be made?

You've got me completely wrong here. I'm not talking about games like mine, I'm talking about games that copy mine.
I don't mean copy as in make a puzzle game set in a castle dungeon, I mean copy as in I use the same settings, characters, goals.

Not everything is infringement just because you didn't think of it yourself.

I never disputed that. However we aren't looking at little things like vending machines in the background. We are looking at games themed around Coke.
It doesn't take a lawyer to figure out that making a Coca-Cola themed game no longer falls under fair use of the Coca-Cola name.

Few bands cover songs and do them better than the original, so why do they do it? They like the song!

Let's say Korn doesn't want anyone covering their songs anymore. Isn't that within their rights? That's what this is all about, a persons right to say "don't copy my stuff".
(Personal note, I'm against covering songs just because no one does it well. I hate hearing people who don't realise their voice isn't suited to the song =P )

One thing I should mention, I'm not against FanGames (I'm only against FanGamez*). I only want to see copyright laws enforced around here because there are so many people around here who wouldn't stop if the copyright holder asked (Unless they threatened legal action).

*FanGamez, those games that are themed around a Fanthing as opposed to being based on it. Ie, DWO is based on the DW games, while "DBZ Fight to the death!" is a basic RPG themed around the DBZ universe. The only thing really making it a DBZ game is the setting.
In response to DarkView (#23)
I never disputed that. However we aren't looking at little things like vending machines in the background. We are looking at games themed around Coke.
It doesn't take a lawyer to figure out that making a Coca-Cola themed game no longer falls under fair use of the Coca-Cola name.

Bingo. Also important is to remember your right to parody -- for example, I include one of Coca-Cola's foreign blunders as their positioning statement in one of my games ("This event is brought to you by Coca-Cola -- bite the wax tadpole!"). If Coca-Cola got upset about that, I could easily claim right to parody, and if they really wanted to be persistent about it, I could take them to court, demonstrate that fact, and force them to pay my legal fees (and, if I was really angry, file a countersuit for disrupting my schedule and causing me unnecessary emotional distress =D).


Let's say Korn doesn't want anyone covering their songs anymore. Isn't that within their rights? That's what this is all about, a persons right to say "don't copy my stuff".
(Personal note, I'm against covering songs just because no one does it well. I hate hearing people who don't realise their voice isn't suited to the song =P )

Lenny Kravitz's rendition of "American Woman" is probably one of the best I've ever heard. I personally believe it's even better than the original.
In response to Anarchy Robot (#14)
Here's a good reasons people might want to copyright their game on BYOND:
1. IT'S THEIR IDEA... Meaning they want to have full control of it and not have to worry about people completely ripping off their game, or if they do, they can sue them.

2. OK... what if it is a REALLY good idea... an idea so good, a game programmer from a big company steals the idea and it is made into a game that is sold worldwide (not that this is likely to happen but...).. The person who came up with it on BYOND should be able to get money from it.

Note that number 2 is VERY unlikely... but the possibility is still there.
In response to Blueseed15 (#25)
You people are right, anarchy root is EXTREMELY wrong. As has been said, copyrights aren't always about the money, its more about the pride, and sense of acomplishment you get from creation. I am a writer and an artist, and i would be VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY pissed if someone went and broke my copyright, because you see, I took alot of time, effort, and creative energy to write stories, and create artwork that is unique and individual to me. I would find it highly offensive, and disrespectfull if someone decided that they were going to "recreate" my original works, without my permission, and claim all credit for them. This would invalidate all of the work i put into MY creations, because said person would essentially be claiming responsibility for everything that I had created.
In response to EzrahChan (#26)
EzrahChan wrote:
This would invalidate all of the work i put into MY creations, because said person would essentially be claiming responsibility for everything that I had created.

Precisely the reason why I paused mid-stream in my creation of Earth One (a game which I've only basically mentioned to, like, four people), which was supposed to be a Space Station 13 killer, and adapted the gameplay to be unique.

Of course, Earth One, originally, was still different than Space Station 13 -- I certainly didn't steal any of Exadv1's ideas, other than putting people on a space station and forcing them to cope with a disaster. (The new Earth One, mind you, has a very different style of gameplay.)

In short, even taking a game idea and using similar elements is still a form of plagiarism. It's basically the same thing as taking a Star Trek game off of the internet and replacing every occurrence of "phaser" with "laser pistol" and every occurrence of "Star Trek" with "Star Wars". It's not the same thing any more, but it's still a rip-off.

The easiest way to create a unique game is to play at least a dozen or so different games, compare all of their systems, and hand-pick the best ones for each different part of your project. Look at The Haven Seed, for example -- that game is entirely unique. However, despite being unique, it draws from Jagged Alliance 2, Fallout, The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, the Mechwarrior pen-and-paper RPG system, and countless other sources for its internal fundamentals. People would be hard-pressed to say that my game was a rip-off of any of them.
In response to Spuzzum (#27)
Of course not. Plagiarism is stealing ideas from one source. Research is stealing from many sources. You just did lots of research for your game. ;P
In response to Jon88 (#28)
Jon88 wrote:
Of course not. Plagiarism is stealing ideas from one source. Research is stealing from many sources. You just did lots of research for your game. ;P

Well, research isn't so much "stealing" ideas as it is "being influenced by" ideas. For example, I use an almost direct copy of Morrowind's major and minor skills concept, but the effect of those major and minor skills is vastly different on the game than it is in Morrowind.
In response to Spuzzum (#29)
You know where one of the biggest areas concerning copyrights (or something like it) is? Scholarly research writing. Sure, most people who publish scholarly work rarely see much money from it. In fact, most scholarly books that are published lose money. The reason plagiarism (scholarly form of 'stolen' ideas) is so serious isn't because of money AT ALL. It has to do with the reputations of the authors, who NEED credit for their hard work.

The same principles guide all kinds of copyright laws. Shouldn't the person who worked hard on a game get credit for their work? People should be allowed to use other peoples' ideas, but credit must to given where credit is due, simple as that. You can't say that you can't use someone else's ideas, but if you aren't profiting, you still need your credit!!!

Oh, and research is when you take IDEAS from one or more sources and credit your source(s). Plagiarism is the act of not crediting where you got your ideas (ie 'stealing' ideas).
In response to Spuzzum (#27)
I really wouldn't care much anyway =] (Space Station 13 seems too CPU intensive right now :/)

Maybe you'll get to do things I probably won't do for a while.

(Like actually being able to navigate the ship through meteor storms and gravity. Hehe that SOP wasn't for nothing =] It will get added!)

In my opinion ddue to the complexity of copyright issues I don't make fangames. Too complicated as to what you can or cannot do. (legally)
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