A little help is always nice in Design Philosophy

ID:287035
 
Feb 10 2012, 9:46 am (Edited on Feb 11 2012, 1:45 am)
I am sure I am in the right place for this... But I could be wrong.

I am looking to make a survival game, along the lines of Archipelago, Archipelago Remastered, Stranded, etc.

However, I do not hold the skills to start from scratch.

This is where I need the help of anyone willing to offer aid to this soon-to-be-programmer.

What I wish to know is if there is an open source, or something, that follows the lines of these games?

Archipelago Remastered Sources are no longer attainable via BYOND, so any of those who might have a copy of this source, or even Archipelago, it would be highly appreciated.

Any other aid offered would be appreciated just as much. Thank You.

NOTE: AND PLEASE READ THIS NOTE: I REQUEST A SOURCE ONLY TO TEACH MYSELF; LEARN THE AREAS I NEED FOR THE TYPE OF GAME I WISH TO CREATE, FROM THE TYPE OF GAME I WISH TO CREATE! I DO NOT IN ANY WAY MEAN I WOULD BE TAKING A SOURCE, EDITING MAYBE 3 LINES THEN CLAIMING IT AS MY OWN; MY EDITS WOULD NEVER BE RELEASED, FOR IN THE END I WILL BE WRITING UP MY CODE, COMPLETELY FROM SCRATCH!

EDIT: Added something very much needed.
#1 Feb 10 2012, 11:36 am
Ripping(the use of a codebase or source without consent from all of the current legal owners) is highly frowned upon here. Your game would probably not be allowed to be listed at all if you used a source without getting explicit permission.

My suggestion is to make a smaller project first to learn the language and improve your programming skills, then move on to the game you really want to make. There are plenty of learning resources available and any questions regarding specific issues you have while learning can be asked in the dev how-to and code problems forums.
#2 Feb 10 2012, 12:00 pm
Darknessmanlol wrote:
I am sure I am in the right place for this... But I could be wrong.

It's never a matter. Moderators will move posts to their correct forums as soon as they're discovered. And that's normally pretty quickly.

I am looking to make a survival game, along the lines of Archipelago, Archipelago Remastered, Stranded, etc.

Good! More games are always a welcome sight to see around this area. And survival games can be quite popular when they're done right.

However, I do not hold the skills to start from scratch.

This is where I need the help of anyone willing to offer aid to this soon-to-be-programmer.

This is where you'll find BYOND is lacking a little. A lot of our developers are busy working on their own projects, self conscious about their knowledge and in fear of ridicule (which is a warranted fear) or simply like yourself and just too inexperienced.

So chances of being able to find someone willing to just help you one-on-one are unlikely. However! All is not lost. The best solution for this is simple: Every time you get stuck, come directly to the forums, and do a search for what you're trying to do. If you can't find what you're looking for, open a thread of discussion about your issue. (Please search first.)

And if you're really lucky, and approach a chat room with the right attitude and good spelling (like you have done here), you may even be lucky enough to catch a developer there in a good enough mood to help you.

What I wish to know is if there is an open source, or something, that follows the lines of these games?

This is a legitimate question. An open source BYOND Game isn't an unheard of concept. And this isn't one I can answer with 100% accuracy. But I'm leaning towards "no", 'cause I'm sure I'd have heard about a legitimate open source project successfully working on BYOND.

Archipelago Remastered Sources are no longer attainable via BYOND, so any of those who might have a copy of this source, or even Archipelago, it would be highly appreciated.

This is the wrong way of going about it. This is getting a source sent to you by someone else. Who knows what the sources quality is.

The fact of it is, very few game sources released have been of any decent quality. I have seen a lot of ripped sources in my time. They were all bad. Every single one of them. I'm not the best DM programmer out there, but I'm better than what those sources portrayed. So I assure you, never use them.

The work is hard, but it's far more rewarding if it's your own.

Any other aid offered would be appreciated just as much. Thank You.

I think my reply should suffice for the time being. =)
#3 Feb 11 2012, 1:41 am
In response to Robertbanks2 (#1)
Robertbanks2 wrote:
Ripping(the use of a codebase or source without consent from all of the current legal owners) is highly frowned upon here. Your game would probably not be allowed to be listed at all if you used a source without getting explicit permission.

My suggestion is to make a smaller project first to learn the language and improve your programming skills, then move on to the game you really want to make. There are plenty of learning resources available and any questions regarding specific issues you have while learning can be asked in the dev how-to and code problems forums.

Well excuse me for saying this... But nearly every game, program, and the such are used with other peoples code. Not so much that a program is just a bundle of others codes, but they use that code to teach themselves. I never stated that I would be claiming the source as my own, and of course never stated 'i want a source without permissions l0l' so please, dont go assuming. No offense ment.

Also, if you look into actual programming, where BYOND isnt there to do part of the work, and you dont have such an open community, you find yourself looking at sources to learn code like that, then edit it to your own personal way. You learn from other peoples work, to advance into your own. I would never think of using a source without permission, and of course all credibility would be placed where it was needed. I know all about Copyright.

EDIT: Changed around my wording.
#4 Feb 11 2012, 1:33 pm
Thanks to a friend, I am now able to complete the things I Was having difficulty with. NOW I can get back to work.
#5 Feb 11 2012, 6:50 pm
Tiberath is right. If I weren't so ashamed of how terrible the Hazordhu source code is, I'd be glad to provide snippets to show people how I do things. Problem is, I genuinely believe that my programming for Hazordhu is absolutely terrible.
#6 Feb 11 2012, 7:01 pm
In response to Darknessmanlol (#3)
Darknessmanlol wrote:
Well excuse me for saying this... But nearly every game, program, and the such are used with other peoples code. Not so much that a program is just a bundle of others codes, but they use that code to teach themselves.

Also, if you look into actual programming, where BYOND isnt there to do part of the work, and you dont have such an open community, you find yourself looking at sources to learn code like that, then edit it to your own personal way. You learn from other peoples work, to advance into your own.

I dunno, i don't think ive done that with any of the games on my hub or any other program i have ever written before. learn the lingo, plan, and write. not copy + paste
#7 Feb 11 2012, 10:20 pm
In response to Darknessmanlol (#3)
Darknessmanlol wrote:
Well excuse me for saying this... But nearly every game, program, and the such are used with other peoples code. Not so much that a program is just a bundle of others codes, but they use that code to teach themselves.

Now you're confusing the use of libraries and demos with that of ripped code. Ripped code is a source being leaked without a users permission. Because of this, it's 100% of the time (thus far), written extremely poorly. Libraries are designed to be plug 'n' play. Think of them as a means of extending the DM language. Although a few not too crash hot ones get through every now and again, mostly these are supposed to be of a reasonable quality. I'm not sure how well the listed/rejected listings of the demo's libraries section is presently. I'll assume it's pretty good.

Demo's are designed to show you how you might go about doing something. And nine times out of ten, they're not really designed for anyone to use the code. The point of a demo is more to read and look at the logic behind a process, then recreate that logic within your own game, using your own parameters.

It's a common mistake people make mixing up the three. Ripped/leaked (hell, even most (if not all) willing source releases are pretty average) sources are of a horrible quality, and regardless of what people say, it's near impossible to "fix them" without completely reprogramming them. So you might as well start from scratch.

Also, if you look into actual programming, where BYOND isnt there to do part of the work, and you dont have such an open community, you find yourself looking at sources to learn code like that, then edit it to your own personal way.

I find myself checking for any libraries or demos which might deal with or explain something. So you're right, I will be looking at code, but I wont be looking at sources. I'll be looking at snippets. And as mentioned previously, you're not supposed to edit it, just understand the theory behind.

You learn from other peoples work, to advance into your own. I would never think of using a source without permission, and of course all credibility would be placed where it was needed. I know all about Copyright.

It's not a matter of permission. That's the thing most programmers around here care about least. Simply because it's not their source, thus, not their problem. What we're trying to tell you is: What you learn from released game sources on BYOND, is going to negatively effect your grasp of the language in the future. This is a non-arguable truth, we've been watching it go on for years. And to our best efforts, people still refuse to listen to this advice.
#8 Feb 12 2012, 7:54 am
In response to Tiberath (#7)
In addition to what Tiberath said, when you use demos or libraries you're not using a complete game. You're still coming up with the game idea yourself, you're just using the libraries to help you implement it. When you use an existing game as the starting point for your own, you're probably not bringing many of your own ideas to the table.

Copying ideas is the real problem, not copying code. When you copy ideas, even if you're a good programmer and you copy ideas from a good game, you're likely to end up with a boring game. For example, Minecraft clones are boring even though they're usually well-made.
#9 Feb 12 2012, 11:24 am
In response to Tiberath (#7)
Tiberath wrote:
it's near impossible to "fix them" without completely reprogramming them. So you might as well start from scratch.

The logic behind ripping a source or using a ripped source is usually backed by the fact that the person doing the ripping isn't capable of starting from scratch. Were they to start from scratch, the result would probably be programmed even worse than what they'd get if they just made a rip.

The problem is the fact that the program isn't user friendly at all and neither is the website when it comes to helping newbies learn to program. That's what it has always been
#10 Feb 12 2012, 11:47 am
In response to Yut Put (#9)
Yut Put wrote:
The problem is the fact that the program isn't user friendly at all and neither is the website when it comes to helping newbies learn to program. That's what it has always been

Programming isn't user friendly. Not everyone who tries to make games will have the patience or education needed to be successful. When you think about what BYOND is and how it attracts users, BYOND attracts a *lot* of people who just aren't cut out to be good programmers. BYOND can be more newbie friendly but there's not much that can be done. It'll always have users who want to make games but just can't figure it out.
#11 Feb 12 2012, 12:19 pm
In response to Forum_account (#10)
Forum_account wrote:
Yut Put wrote:
The problem is the fact that the program isn't user friendly at all and neither is the website when it comes to helping newbies learn to program. That's what it has always been

Programming isn't user friendly. Not everyone who tries to make games will have the patience or education needed to be successful. When you think about what BYOND is and how it attracts users, BYOND attracts a *lot* of people who just aren't cut out to be good programmers. BYOND can be more newbie friendly but there's not much that can be done. It'll always have users who want to make games but just can't figure it out.

This. So much this. I'm a case of someone who wants to make something, but can't quite figure it out. I've been hanging around BYOND since '05; using a multitude of keys. I began coding sometime in '06, and I'm still terrible at it. Coding just doesn't seem to come natural to me, and I suspect this could be the case for others as well.
#12 Feb 12 2012, 8:44 pm
In response to Gravity Sandwich (#11)
Gravity Sandwich wrote:
This. So much this. I'm a case of someone who wants to make something, but can't quite figure it out. I've been hanging around BYOND since '05; using a multitude of keys.

Don't sweat it. I've been around since '03 and still have nothing particularly noteworthy to my name. ;)

I began coding sometime in '06, and I'm still terrible at it. Coding just doesn't seem to come natural to me, and I suspect this could be the case for others as well.

I wouldn't say it comes particularly natural to me either. I extremely dislike C++. Even though I desperately, desperately don't want to. It's the same with Java and the majority of other languages out there (minus PHP). I dislike the majority of them. I like DM 'cause it's easy. And I like PHP 'cause it's easier than DM (<- subject to argument).

But I still stick to it, 'cause hey, why not? Need something to do while passing the time, and video games these days are getting less and less interesting.
#13 Feb 18 2012, 4:22 am
In response to Tiberath (#12)
Tiberath wrote:
I wouldn't say it comes particularly natural to me either. I extremely dislike C++. Even though I desperately, desperately don't want to..

Hah, I know that feeling. If I could count the number of times I tried to get into C++, I'd have probably passed math class..

#14 Feb 18 2012, 3:31 pm
Hope you get the help needed, I've just started so maybe now isn't the best time for me to be helping you :P But either way, good luck.