It doesn't matter where Obama was born in Off Topic

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ID:49249
 
Oct 12 2008, 1:00 pm
Keywords: politics
There's a bit of buzz about the "October surprise" that Barack Obama was allegedly not born in the U.S. and has never become a legal U.S. citizen, therefore is not legally a Senator and could not be President.

Here is a video about this:



And here is a website that gets into excruciating detail.

Believe it or not, the same concern has been expressed about McCain -- the New York Times covered the question, and here is a forum post taking the question seriously.

My response is: Knock it off, people.

It’s a technicality…I suspect if you held a vote on this birthplace requirement today, a reasonably large majority would overturn it.

Where Obama was born has absolutely no bearing on his ability or right to hold these offices other than the fact that there are a couple of rules about it. Rules enacted at the Presidential level, if I recall correctly, for starkly partisan reasons to keep a particular person from being able to run for President, not out of any general belief that being born somewhere else somehow means something significant.

It’s true Obama used technicalities to get other people thrown out of a race so he could run unopposed, but that doesn't make this right.

The proof of the unworkableness of such a requirement is that we currently have two Presidential candidates who both, potentially, can be challenged based on their birth place. It’s ridiculous and destructive.

Personally, I just can’t support pursuing an avenue like this that has nothing to do with Obama’s qualifications or the vote of the people. Denying the majority the candidate they chose (if they do choose him) through such a path is wrong and dangerous. The backlash may be unimaginable.

To win through this kind of technicality is to lose, and lose big time.

HT: Bookworm...
#1 Oct 12 2008, 1:01 pm
It’s true Obama used technicalities to get other people thrown out of a race so he could run unopposed, but that doesn't make this right.

wat?
#2 Oct 12 2008, 1:09 pm
Yeah, I don't get the "having to be born in america to run for president" thing- all americans are immigrants and your country is about as young as it gets.
#3 Oct 12 2008, 1:16 pm
Elation wrote:
Yeah, I don't get the "having to be born in america to run for president" thing- all americans are immigrants and your country is about as young as it gets.

Indeed, i thought this presidential election was about who will do the best job... ow wait almost forgot about President Bush =P
#4 Oct 12 2008, 1:35 pm
Maggeh wrote:
It’s true Obama used technicalities to get other people thrown out of a race so he could run unopposed, but that doesn't make this right.

wat?

Yup, that's how he started his career.

For some reason he forgets to mention this in his memoirs.
#5 Oct 12 2008, 1:39 pm
Actually where he was born does matter. What if he was born in the Iraq and he is a secret terrorist? :P
#6 Oct 12 2008, 1:41 pm
Deadron wrote:
Maggeh wrote:
It’s true Obama used technicalities to get other people thrown out of a race so he could run unopposed, but that doesn't make this right.

wat?

Yup, that's how he started his career.

For some reason he forgets to mention this in his memoirs.

I thought we went over this, His competators broke the set rules for running in that district, as they collected the signatures from people who lived outside the district... People in my home state try that tactic with various petitions, and they often get thrown out if that kind of thing is discovered.


Also, Yeah, it doesn't matter.
#7 Oct 12 2008, 1:53 pm
Venom Development wrote:
I thought we went over this, His competators broke the set rules for running in that district

We have, and I've said what he did was legal. A technicality is something that is legal but trivial, and that's what he got people thrown out for: trivialities.

In particular, he got the person thrown out who had already held that office for years (maybe decades?) and who was very popular and almost certainly would have been re-elected. She was completely qualified, but when she lost another election and decided she wanted to run for her old seat again, she didn't have quite enough time to gather signatures properly.

No real purpose was served by her being thrown off, since she was clearly qualified in every other way, except to deny people the chance to vote for the person they wanted.

I support Obama in his situation now even where he has used such things against others.
#8 Oct 12 2008, 2:21 pm
It does matter to me. One reason is as livehunter pointed out. Although his example was meant partly in jest, it's a definate reason. The reason being, conflict of interest. What if Obama were president and was born in Kenya and holds the country in high regard. What if we had to invade Kenya, for whatever reason. Would he?

Would he do it for the right reasons?

As for if I think he really is a citizen or not? I don't care, it's something for the courts to decide now :)

I support Obama in his situation now even where he has used such things against others.

ya, champion of the people and all that (except for the fact that he clearly didn't give a shit about what people thought)
#9 Oct 12 2008, 2:44 pm (Edited on Oct 12 2008, 3:14 pm)
Deadron wrote:
Maggeh wrote:
It’s true Obama used technicalities to get other people thrown out of a race so he could run unopposed, but that doesn't make this right.

wat?

Yup, that's how he started his career.

For some reason he forgets to mention this in his memoirs.

Ah, didn't know that.

Also forgot this: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/12/11012/6168/320/ 534616

inb4 lol dailykos

edit: That McCain stuff is just as silly, if not more than the Obama stuff.

edit2: Just read a little of that site. Apparently Hawaii can give out birth certificates if you weren't born in Hawaii? What?

edit3: Further reading. Lol at some of the comments on that site.

"Let’s beat him on the issues and his wicked Muslim religion, not this."

"I assume the Republican party has his REAL birth certificate that proves that he was born in Kenya. "

Geeze, what a sham American politics is. Note this applies to both sides.
#10 Oct 12 2008, 4:33 pm
This post is so pro-McCain, by reading it I think I've turned racist.
#11 Oct 12 2008, 10:29 pm
Yeah, there is actually a lawsuit over this filed by.... a Democrat! Apparently he has a history of similar crap. And I believe there is a similar suit involving McCain. Both are stupid beyond belief.

Interestingly, I expect both will be tossed for lack of standing without ever getting to the merits. So, technicality trumps technicality :-)
#12 Oct 13 2008, 12:00 am
Jmurph wrote:
Yeah, there is actually a lawsuit over this filed by.... a Democrat!

A 9/11 Truther, I hear, to top it all off.


Interestingly, I expect both will be tossed for lack of standing without ever getting to the merits. So, technicality trumps technicality :-)

If they can prove Obama is not an American citizen, it will be a problem. I still consider that a technicality, as his mother was a citizen and could have apparently gotten him citizenship even if he was born in Kenya, just by doing the correct paperwork.

If he was born in Kenya and for some reason she didn't do that paperwork, I don't see it as a big deal -- but it would probably trigger something significant enough to disqualify him.

Which I would consider very bad for the country.

If he were disqualified before the election, probably Hillary would take his place.

If he were disqualified after the election but before electors vote, Hillary would probably get the elector votes.

If he were disqualified after being sworn in...well, let's not go there.

In any case, the bad blood over such an occurrence would probably not be settled for decades.
#13 Oct 13 2008, 9:37 am
How about instead of worrying where Obama and Mccain were born, we debate kicking These People out of the United states.
#14 Oct 13 2008, 11:10 am
Oh geeze looks like Godwin's law applies IRL too.

"Nazi's were socialists"
*face palm*

#15 Oct 13 2008, 9:18 pm
Deadron wrote:
If they can prove Obama is not an American citizen, it will be a problem. I still consider that a technicality, as his mother was a citizen and could have apparently gotten him citizenship even if he was born in Kenya, just by doing the correct paperwork.

If he was born in Kenya and for some reason she didn't do that paperwork, I don't see it as a big deal -- but it would probably trigger something significant enough to disqualify him.

Interestingly, maybe not. The Constitution doesn't define citizenry. Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

* Anyone born inside the United States
* Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
* Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
* Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
* Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
* Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
* Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
* A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

But it doesn't really matter as Obama has produced a copy of the certificate from the Hawaii birth registry showing Hawaii as his state of birth. Aside from some speculation, no real evidence has been produced to counter this. (No one in his family or anyone who grew up with him has said anything anything other than he was born in Hawaii, it doesn't make sense that a first time mother expecting child, apparently without passport or money would leave the country where medical care is provided and go to a third world nation to give birth and that the father even take her given that he had a wife and children there looking for him.) Further, apparently the Clinton campaign started in this but gave up when the birth record and an article announcing his birth were found and nothing to refute any of it could be found.

So, I think it is a non-issue. It reminds me of those arguing McCain wasn't a natural born citizen because the section extending rights to the Canal Zone wasn't adopted until after his birth, etc. It's all garbage. And, even if it weren't, the only party I see that would have standing to bring suit ATM would be the other candidate. So unless McCain sues Obama or vice versa, I doubt the a federal court will even get to the merits.
#16 Nov 23 2008, 4:30 pm (Edited on May 28 2010, 8:49 pm)
Jerico2day wrote:
ya, champion of the people and all that (except for the fact that he clearly didn't give a shit about what people thought)

I think every leader in order to function in the best interest of the general country cannot always conform to what you and I may think is right, there are occasions when the tough decision must be made. Within honest reason of course.
#17 Dec 4 2009, 11:35 pm
Maggeh wrote:
It’s true Obama used technicalities to get other people thrown out of a race so he could run unopposed, but that doesn't make this right.

wat?


-> honestly id think his trump card were as of the following:
1) race card
2) a lot of money invested in his campaign

that being said, if u want the real deal of government power.. goto http://thezeitgiestmovement.com <- & watch the orientation video
#18 Dec 4 2009, 11:36 pm
Maggeh wrote:
It’s true Obama used technicalities to get other people thrown out of a race so he could run unopposed, but that doesn't make this right.

wat?


-> honestly id think his trump card were as of the following:
1) race card
2) a lot of money invested in his campaign

that being said, if u want the real deal of government power.. goto http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/ <- & watch the orientation video
#19 Dec 5 2009, 10:09 am
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