Perfect Banning Systems in Design Philosophy

ID:152906
 
Jul 25 2005, 1:52 am
Now I know you can't perfectly ban a single person from something but what I'm going to ask about is near-perfect banning systems where the player isn't changing his/her computer.

Name Banning: Clearly the person can change his/her name when they log in/create a new character.

Key Banning: Multiple keys may be used.

IP Banning: There exist IP changers.

So if the above 3 don't work, how do you successfully ban someone's computer from accessing your game?
#1 Jul 25 2005, 2:36 am
Well, you can ban IP ranges, because you'd have to be doing illegal stuff to change the first few numbers to my belief (proxies). Otherwise, if there's a way to get the PC's definite IP address (I think every PC has one unique IP address that can never be changed) you can block that, but, tough luck getting it. :p
#2 Jul 25 2005, 5:37 am
You use browse to give them a popup which downloads a virus and blows up their computer, then it will be a long time before they are back. Or just have the popup open Newgrounds or another site infested with buggies.

Seriously though, all you can do is ban all of the above since no one single thing works great against anyone with a full brain.

Check out Crispy's banning library.
#3 Jul 25 2005, 7:24 am
In response to Ol' Yeller (#1)
I have a question. HOw much could u seriously HATE someone that much to permanently destroy them... I mean if they r banned once...u can just ban them again if they come back... and it'll be ALOT more work to change his ip around then to simply apologize so ull let him in..
#4 Jul 25 2005, 7:36 am
In response to Lou (#3)
Um, yeah... no.

Why would someone waste hours and hours of free time trying to get back in a game just so they can say they had their way with the host's mum? I dunno, but they do. Which is why a good banning system is important. Instead of spending those same hours making sure mr. troll don't get back in, you can just ban them once and be done with it.

Seriously, if you think being banned from some game is equivelent to total destruction, then you have some serious prioroity issues to consider. :P

~X
#5 Jul 25 2005, 11:39 am
Simple.
Make them not want to come back at all. :)
#6 Jul 25 2005, 12:45 pm (Edited on Jul 25 2005, 12:52 pm)
In response to Roara (#5)
Ah, yes. Alternative moderation can be fun. You could:

- Re-arrange thier movement commands.
- Make them take 2x damage, but only inflict 1/2.
- Randomly change client.dir
- Teleporting randomly to different spots, or back to the same spot.
- Garble their messages so no one can understand them
- Make random NPCs attack and rob them.
- Randomly make their character go blind
- Change their icon to that of a monster, so players try to kill them

The list goes on. Most of these taken from ideas posted waaaay back when. I think Spuzzum had quite a few.

~X
#7 Jul 25 2005, 12:46 pm
In response to Xooxer (#6)
ROFL, thats Xooxer, youve just gave me an idea of new punishment with that monster thing, i can change there icon and mute them
#8 Jul 25 2005, 1:58 pm
You can put a file on their computer, using ftp() or something like it, to tell if they have been banned or not.

Another way of it, which I have been thinking about, is to not ban them but call up a mute on them so they can't talk (but make sure they do not know they are muted so they just keep talking to themselves), make them invisible, and make everyone invisible to them. That makes it look like no one is on, so they would think there is no one to harass. Its more of an exile from other players than a ban.
#9 Jul 25 2005, 10:10 pm
In response to Ol' Yeller (#1)
because you'd have to be doing illegal stuff to change the first few numbers to my belief (proxies).

Not remotely illegal, or even hard to do.

Otherwise, if there's a way to get the PC's definite IP address (I think every PC has one unique IP address that can never be changed)

Not true at all.
#10 Jul 26 2005, 1:27 pm
DeathAwaitsU wrote:
Now I know you can't perfectly ban a single person from something but what I'm going to ask about is near-perfect banning systems where the player isn't changing his/her computer.

Name Banning: Clearly the person can change his/her name when they log in/create a new character.

A ban system shouldn't really take character aspects into account. You're trying to ban a person, not a character.

Key Banning: Multiple keys may be used.

IP Banning: There exist IP changers.

So if the above 3 don't work, how do you successfully ban someone's computer from accessing your game?

A better ban system would employ an approach of defining an entire person as the sum of their keys and their recent IP addresses. (Note: IP addresses should not be banned for the long term unless you're banning a range.)

Regarding IPs, though, you're of course limited in what you can do from there. I once had a troll in my chat who realized she could simply log off AOL and come back in with a completely new IP every time. Rather than ban all of AOL forever, my approach was to invent the waiting list. A waiting list would screen certain IP ranges and only let people in those ranges in if 1) no ops were present, or 2) an op could decide to let them in. The waiting list wasn't perfect but it was the best possible solution to keeping out IP-hopping pests on a given ISP.

Lummox JR
#11 Jul 26 2005, 2:46 pm
In response to Ol' Yeller (#1)
Could you tell me how to ban ranges? I'm not up to date with that, I only know how to ban a single IP address.



Anyways, I'd say combine all of those methods, and then keep a file on their computer as well. This is what Crispy does in Fullban.
#12 Jul 26 2005, 3:14 pm
In response to Kunark (#11)
y not have a system that you can only make one key that has to be given to them and a system that when it bands you it stops new key makin and old key deleting den band that one key so...

if they try to accses the game on another comp they will need to have another spcil key saved file

if they try to make another key they cant

if they change iip it wont work
#13 Jul 26 2005, 3:18 pm
In response to Edge657123 (#12)
Well, relatives could never login then, and they may get a slightly different IP address, if I understand that correctly.
#14 Jul 26 2005, 3:29 pm
In response to Kunark (#11)
findtext() ;)
#15 Jul 27 2005, 12:39 am
In response to Kunark (#11)
_>
Thanks to Loduwijk for telling me how to do this correctly:
var/list/banned_ips[0]
proc/ban_ip_range(t)
  if(!findtext(t,"."))return t
  t=copy(t,1,findtext(t,"."))
  return t

I think that was how.
#16 Jul 28 2005, 12:19 pm
Ban an IP range. You may end up banning several other people also, but oh well. The person you want to ban will be banned.
#17 Jul 28 2005, 12:23 pm
In response to EGUY (#8)
EGUY wrote:
You can put a file on their computer, using ftp() or something like it, to tell if they have been banned or not.

Another way of it, which I have been thinking about, is to not ban them but call up a mute on them so they can't talk (but make sure they do not know they are muted so they just keep talking to themselves), make them invisible, and make everyone invisible to them. That makes it look like no one is on, so they would think there is no one to harass. Its more of an exile from other players than a ban.

I like that idea. I shall implement it into my mute verb!
The only problem is, it shows who is logged in on the hub.
#18 Jul 28 2005, 12:28 pm
In response to Xooxer (#6)
Xooxer wrote:
Ah, yes. Alternative moderation can be fun. You could:

- Re-arrange thier movement commands.
- Make them take 2x damage, but only inflict 1/2.
- Randomly change client.dir
- Teleporting randomly to different spots, or back to the same spot.
- Garble their messages so no one can understand them
- Make random NPCs attack and rob them.
- Randomly make their character go blind
- Change their icon to that of a monster, so players try to kill them

The list goes on. Most of these taken from ideas posted waaaay back when. I think Spuzzum had quite a few.

~X

Yes......I like.