Try it and see.

Well im not goign to lie, im Horrible at programming IMO. However, id love to have a game like this so people can help out. Id be more than happy to spend the time i can on thare, and if you need so, host a 24/7 server of this. it would be retty easy to make a game like this, basically "Join as Producer" or "Join as Student" if "Student" list all the producers and allow them to pick, once they pick the students view is shifted to the producer, Have an on-screen chat system anyone can use so everyone can see what i being said in that room, and have an on screen chat system for people to code in(only the producer can access[Maybe an option that can allow others to]). Also maybe allow the producer to make a list thats shown, of games being hosted by themself, or jsut a link to a game so people can see what coding hes done, and it effect in game. Then again this ismost likely not even clsoe to what you were getting at and just an idea. However, id love to contribute to this if i can.

I Wont be the best, but im decent and im willing to host it for free/do my best to help anyone who needs it.

Oh i see, Well whoever is able to pull of an idea like i listed/concept like i listed would easily have a BYOND hit on their hands. So many people want to learn how to program but can due to it being overcomplicated/they dont understand something and have no one to ask. This tends to make most people quit, this could change that.

This strikes me as incredibly arrogant, as if you expect your genius to magically rub off on people. I don't think you meant it that way, that's just how it sounded to me. I didn't watch any of the GiaD streams, but those all seemed silly too.

I think the greatest potential benefit here is to you (or whoever is having an audience watch them program). Many BYOND developers like to hide their work and only reveal it on occasion to elicit some praise. Their coding practices and habits (which are *awful*) are kept hidden so that nobody can ever say "hey, you know there's a much better way to do that, right?". Keeping development behind closed doors like that lets people give the illusion that they're excellent programmers.

If BYOND developers had audiences it would (aside from being creepy) take away this ability to hide bad habits. The problem is that the developers who would put their work out their like this would most likely do so only because they believe their work to be perfect and would ignore any criticism (no matter how valid). You can already put your work out their using your blog, but you don't see a lot of people doing this - you don't see many people posting "here's my attempt at coding a feature for my game, can you guys suggest ways to improve it?". This would also rely on people responding well to criticism and that doesn't happen often either.

Forum_account wrote:

Keeping development behind closed doors like that lets people give the illusion that they're excellent programmers.

I don't see why people should feel obligated to present their programming to be critiqued if they don't want to. BYOND is about building games - it's not a contest to see who has the best codes.

Hubris: The Game

CauTi0N wrote:

I thought you left Metamorphman?

There is no such thing as leaving BYOND. You should know this by now.

EmpirezTeam wrote:

I don't see why people should feel obligated to present their programming to be critiqued if they don't want to. BYOND is about building games - it's not a contest to see who has the best codes.

People don't have to be excellent programmers. The problem is when people present the illusion that they are. This is bad because:

1. It's just a silly thing to do and it makes people think "oh, that's what you're supposed to do". How many people post screenshots of their title screens because they need feedback on it? And how many people post images of their title screens because they think that's just what you're supposed to do?

2. Presenting the illusion that you're a better programmer than you are means that you're not a good programmer but you think you're good. This means you're less likely to improve because you don't think you need to improve. It also makes you less likely to ask questions even when you really need to.

You don't have to be an excellent programmer to make a good game, but there's some level of skill that's required. If you don't have the skill, you'll tend to start a lot of projects, the code will get messy, you'll lose motivation, and you'll never finish (how many people does that describe?). There's nothing wrong with that, but people should be honest about their skill level. This is also the reason why people make one "game", have a single person say "good job!", and suddenly that person is a DM expert and starts pumping out tutorials.

Sure, I think this is a pretty good idea, but I think it's susceptible to the same things that made the Saloon a less-than-preferable community hub for BYOND developers.

The older chats, Chatters and wiz_chat, were positive and supportive only because of the people who inhabited them, not because of whatever features one may have had over the other.

The Saloon became what it is now because most of those who were once positive and supportive no longer linger about in the chatroom. Most of those who remain are not active BYOND Developers or don't care much for helping others or simply idle in the chatroom.

You need to put an emphasis on creating the ideal supportive and constructive environment before the fancy features.

Additionally, you need to make streaming an optional thing for those who wish to participate; Streaming can be very taxing for some peoples' computers and can interfere with development.

On a different point, being able to finish a project has very little to do with programming skill, but I don't think it's appropriate to derail this comment thread to pursue another debate.