SuperAntx wrote:
EmpirezTeam wrote:
If it wasn't for sources, I wouldn't know how to program. I basically did what Ganing did and saw how things were done in other sources, then went back to my game and tried it myself until I got it right.

That's exactly how a lot of people seem to "learn" some fundamental misconceptions about programming and the DM language.

Reading the walls of text in the DM guide is not for everyone. I wanted to make games, but at the same time I didn't want to read pages all day. I went straight from Zilal tutorials into an Elysium source and then various demos ( I.E. I used one of DT's demos to learn how to use the missile proc for my RTS ).
EmpirezTeam wrote:
Reading the walls of text in the DM guide is not for everyone. I wanted to make games, but at the same time I didn't want to read pages all day. I went straight from Zilal tutorials into an Elysium source and then various demos ( I.E. I used one of DT's demos to learn how to use the missile proc for my RTS ).

If my demo helped you make that, I'm impressed! It isn't the highest quality bit of code to learn from, but I'm glad it could help in some way.
It did, and I thought I told you before. I knew nothing about missile until I downloaded your RTS demo. That game was fun while it lasted. I took it down to focus on Metier War.
SuperAntx wrote:
EmpirezTeam wrote:
If it wasn't for sources, I wouldn't know how to program. I basically did what Ganing did and saw how things were done in other sources, then went back to my game and tried it myself until I got it right.

That's exactly how a lot of people seem to "learn" some fundamental misconceptions about programming and the DM language.

How should I learn to program? The guide is old as fck. "This document comprehensively covers the DM language through BYOND 2.0". What. The. %^&@. A Zeta source is more updated than that.
A mob is still a mob, Ganing.
SuperAntx wrote:
A mob is still a mob, Ganing.

And I know what a mob is through a source. Are you saying the guide teaches it better?
Yes.
SuperAntx wrote:
Yes.

Explain how? I code a mean mob, I tell ya.
That's what's so wonderful about the DM Guide, it does all the explaining for me!
SuperAntx wrote:
That's what's so wonderful about the DM Guide, it does all the explaining for me!

Chapter 1: "But what on earth is a mob and why is each line indented like stair-steps? All in good time. For now, simply understand that the player's avatar in the game is a mob."

Chapter 3: "Mobs are drawn on top of everything else. They normally represent players or computer-controlled creatures. (The term mob stands for mobile object. It is also suggestive of monster, which is a common role they play.)"

I know this, and I never read this before now.

btw, mean mob
mob var/ismean=1
The DM guide should be updated and it should be a bit more user friendly, a lot of people want to start making games with mobs in them (what game doesn't?) but the first thing the DM guide gives you is text based command.

It's better to start with the basics like text commands, yes, but the way newbies see it is "ARGGH, I'm not learning how to make bullets shoot out of my gun, this is pointless!!! *RAGE QUIT*"

What would be nice is if the DM guide had some more interesting test code to start of with. The "Hello World" prompt is good but a lot of newcommers want to get to the nitty gritty.

Currently, if they just search up the section that talks about the missile() proc, they're already lost as to what they're reading because they jumped ahead.

Perhaps if there was a "Having trouble?" section on each page that would include the preliminary lessons for that proc, so that those who are lost as to what they're looking at can click on those links to learn the essentials to use JUST the missile proc.

While it seems pointless to us, it'd be extremely helpful to newbies and it's likely to keep them from rage quitting and learning how to rip instead (which is pretty easy to do in comparison.)
Bravo1 wrote:
-Text-

I've brought this up in the BYOND forums but it seems they don't really care. It even says in the guide that it should be accompanied by the reference, but I just have the reference pretty much.

The way I think about it is, if I was a noob, and I learned that chat stuff, and made a chatting game. Okay now what? I want to make interface! There is no tutorials ANYWHERE for making a skin unless you search like a BOSS. So how do you learn? Other sources, trial and error, or give up. How can newbs advance themselves if they have no teacher nor guidance?

I think someone should step up and do a whole BYOND programming thing with Youtube. Someone with skill (SuperAntx ;)). Cause so many people ask repetitive things in the help forum, what if we could link them to a video that would tell them everything and more?

You do raise a good point, Ganing. The interface for finding decent tutorials and libraries is quite terrible. You'd have to already know what "SwapMaps" is for example before you even go searching for it.
SuperAntx wrote:
You do raise a good point, Ganing. The interface for finding decent tutorials and libraries is quite terrible. You'd have to already know what "SwapMaps" is for example before you even go searching for it.

And here's where I say "perhaps you should make a decent one". But the thing with that is many people don't want to take time out of their life to help others with something they deem as simple as this. I remember as a noob thinking I knew everything about skins BUT NEVER ANCHORING! xD. I couldn't, for the life of me, find out what the problem was. I thought it was a coding problem until someone suggested I anchor them.

Crazy idea but if someone started a BYOND Guru Supergroup that chucked out tutorials on everything? A place to replace the guide, where everything is there? It would be awesome if this happened, but I can't imagine how many people would join. I would, but I know my programming skill is around medium and I wouldn't match up to the others around me.
I'll make tutorial vids if you'd like. I've got the experience to, at least for all the simple stuff. I've been helping out Magnum2K with coding for a while and he seems to think I'm a good teacher. So, why not? I'll make a tutorial tomorrow, any suggestions on what I should start with?
Bravo1 wrote:
I'll make tutorial vids if you'd like. I've got the experience to, at least for all the simple stuff. I've been helping out Magnum2K with coding for a while and he seems to think I'm a good teacher. So, why not? I'll make a tutorial tomorrow, any suggestions on what I should start with?

I dunno honestly, when I learned to code I just wanted to learn to do something. I wasn't focused on learning one thing or anything. SuperAntx, got any ideas?
Hmm, Maybe this can be a team effort, like The Byondcast or Byond Journalism. DmTutor! It'd be cool if you could freely submit videos and then it could be approved based on its content. Perhaps Garthor could be one of the mods, you know him, he's got a knack for spotting problems in peoples code.
Bravo1 wrote:
Hmm, Maybe this can be a team effort, like The Byondcast or Byond Journalism. DmTutor! It'd be cool if you could freely submit videos and then it could be approved based on its content. Perhaps Garthor could be one of the mods, you know him, he's got a knack for spotting problems in peoples code.

That would be an excellent idea. And plus, if you can get it a blog, Maybe DMCast and BYOND Journalism can advertise it. I think it would be cool. I'd submit something every now and then just for fun.

Also: I know Garthor xD.
I think a random cluster of unassociated tutorials would be a bad thing. It's not much different from the random demos and libs we have now.

I pitched the idea of making game templates to learn from awhile back but it didn't go over well. By game templates I mean a working game people could learn from like a stolen source code, but actually commented and built correctly.

The main problem with this is deciding how to build a lesson plan around a completed game. What might work is creating three versions of the same templates. The first one would be an introductory version introducing simple, fundamental game mechanics such as movement, collision, and projectiles. The second version would be the introduction of meta-game mechanics which would tie all those basic concepts into an actual playable game. The third version would focus on interface design, visual aesthetics, polishing, and so on.

Each version could have its own tutorial video(s) talking about why everything works the way it does. It would be very important for them to show simple animations explaining everything, sort of like in those Aperture Science videos. It's important to get concepts across rather than simply focusing on code syntax, so they can't just be simple voice overs with code on the screen.
SuperAntx wrote:
-text-

I think that's a splendid idea. Cause I have a friend who wants to learn how to program BYOND games, he tried the guide but he just don't like reading that much, (and he's in AP English, go figure) so visual tutorials plus the coding to help would be great.

Also if I remember, Game Maker did the same thing, but they had bases to build off of. Like one for side scroller, one for pixel movement, ect. I thought this was cool.

I just think if BYOND has an official Facebook, why can't it have an official Youtube? I understand Lummox and Tom are busy with the programming, but gurus can step up and take the challenge. I mean, ACWraith is like the news reporter of BYOND. The Tech Tree and now the column that appears in the News section of the BYOND Pager.

If people will listen to Oasiscircle and Akto yabber about news and stuff, (I do!) they will probably watch videos and give feedback.
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