The 2MB limit? in Off Topic

ID:90735
 
Jan 30 2010, 11:58 pm
I know all of my past attempts of a game or idea have failed (on my past keys) and I know it's because I just jumped into things without any plans or written down ideas. But i'm slowly trying to become a bit more serious in not only how I work, but now a bit of how I act. So i'm trying to form some strict rules for myself since I now wish to try and attempt the world of BYOND RPG (To me, I see it as "easier" because I don't have to stick with the anime's lore, story, and characters, instead I come up with "my own" concepts).

So with all of the above, is SilkWizard's 2 MB 'rule' the best way to go or a good idea. Or do you view it as arbitrary and foolish? and by 2 MB, does that mean the compressed version of a game, or the entire source code (because I somehow find that impossible for a full game). Maybe if I follow the 2 MB rule i'll make better decisions in adding things and asking the question, do I really need that? or am I doing this the most efficient way?

What are your thoughts on the 2 MB 'rule'
#1 Jan 31 2010, 12:06 am
I think of it more as a goal than a rule. For certain games, 2MB is just out of the question, such as wide scale games with a lot of sound effects and image files, but with smaller projects, 2MB isn't that unreasonable.
#2 Jan 31 2010, 12:08 am
With how NEStalgia looks. It seems like it must be more than 2MB by now. So i question, if Silk is still following that goal/idea/rule, how is he doing it, or, if he isn't following it anymore for a project like that.
#3 Jan 31 2010, 12:14 am
I'm going to have to concur with Alathon's response to that point of view.
#4 Jan 31 2010, 12:24 am
Tiberath wrote:
I'm going to have to concur with Alathon's response to that point of view.

My thoughts exactly.
#5 Jan 31 2010, 1:39 am
Some short games can be 2MBs, some moderately big games can as well.
What it comes down to is the amount of media in your RSC. You could have a large project containing a lot of sounds, pixel art or whatever else.
Without that, the KBs can add up little by little, it's not necessarily a bad thing to go over 2MBs, but the projectile environment is yours to control.
#6 Jan 31 2010, 2:19 am
The fact that you are even asking the question is a good thing, and means you're already way ahead of most BYONDers!

The bottom line: take your time and put some thought into keeping your packaged game as lean and clean as possible. A person who is thinking about keeping their resources in check is putting themselves in a mindset that lends itself to more professional, polished game development.

To answer your other question: fully compiled, NEStalgia is 771 kb.


To those linking Alathon's response: he actually reiterated exactly what I said, but with a side of wimpy passive-aggressive frustration.

Prior to my post, 99% of people on BYOND never gave a second thought to resource efficiency and compression. The fact that it is now on people's minds means that my rant did exactly what I wanted it to. I ought to put up a rant about how moronic everyone on BYOND is for not being able to figure me out yet, because I think that 99% of you are still clueless about that as well :P
#7 Jan 31 2010, 7:11 am
one thing in Alathon's post i just saw and oogled at was "People are downloading games regularly that take up in excess of 500-1000MB for smaller games" lolwut? i would never in my life download a BYOND-quality game over 30 megs.

... and that's being generous- if i join a game only to see it's 5 million bytes large, i go "ugh, forget that" and close it out. partially because BYOND's pager system downloads games at 1% of my actual download speed, but also because i already know how crappy any BYOND game is going to be
#8 Jan 31 2010, 8:34 am
I once made a game with BYOND, and just the DMB file was over 5MB, just over 2MB compressed.

If you are making any moderate sized game, a RPG in particular, 2MB means one thing.
It is tiny. It more than likely takes place in a small area, meaning it doesn't need a large variety of graphics or sounds.
It also probably has very little of a storyline, quests or even text to read.

Also, you have to take into consideration the quality of things.
If you are using NES style sound and graphics, they probably will not take up much room.
If you're using very high quality graphics and fully orchestrated music... Compression can only take you so far.

Two extreme examples. But the point is, if the scope and scale of your game becomes big enough, it will exceed 2Mb in size, no matter what you try to do about it.

The "2Mb rule" is silly and it reminds me of the "3 tile rule". Ignore it.
What you should be focusing on is optimizing things. Removing any waste or redundant or useless code/graphics/sound. Try to use compression, or alternative resource types if that is not possible.

Although, to be fair. This is 2010, not 2000.
Most people now-a-days can download 2Mb in seconds, literally. I personally can do it in exactly 1 second.
Not only that, but most people have enough storage space that they can easily store a 2Mb game on their hard drive. I personally could store 1,750,000 2 Mb games on my hard drives, and I wouldn't have to delete anything I have on them already.

Alathon was right. 500-1000 Mb for a small game is nothing. It is a minute or two download and hardly takes a dent on my hard drives.
#9 Jan 31 2010, 8:54 am
The Magic Man wrote:
Alathon was right. 500-1000 Mb for a small game is nothing. It is a minute or two download and hardly takes a dent on my hard drives.

Zaole wrote:
BYOND's pager system downloads games at 1% of my actual download speed
[and] i already know how crappy any BYOND game is going to be


what you said is pretty interesting though. if you decided "what the heck, i'll go ahead and give this random naruto game on BYOND a try" and found that it was 1 gigabyte large, you're saying you'd go ahead and download it?

(oh, and what you said also implies that you download BYOND games through the pager at 16 MB/sec. hahaha oh wow, etc etc)
#10 Jan 31 2010, 9:03 am
You know... Look at a games hub, one where you can download a game from.

Look at the very top, just under the title of the game. Where you usually find website/forum links.

You will also see a zip link, allowing you to bypass BYONDs pager, and download the game directly from the website.

I just tried it. Had a 3Mb game in 3 seconds.
#11 Jan 31 2010, 9:16 am
what do you do when the game isn't available for download because it's got a single 24/7 host? your only option is to connect and download through the slow, slow pager. (and before my connection gets blamed: http://www.speedtest.net/result/700961750.png )
#12 Jan 31 2010, 9:17 am
Your connection still gets blamed because both my internet connections download BYOND Games at full speed. <.<
#13 Jan 31 2010, 12:50 pm
There is no 2M rule.

It is arbitrary and irrelevant.
#14 Jan 31 2010, 1:05 pm
I use the rule of thumb. If I can't fit the game on an SD card the size of my thumb, it's too big.
#15 Jan 31 2010, 1:09 pm
I have a small SD card that holds 4 gigs... so that means If I followed that rule, i'd be able to make a 4 gig game?
#16 Jan 31 2010, 1:26 pm
EnigmaticGallivanter wrote:
I have a small SD card that holds 4 gigs... so that means If I followed that rule, i'd be able to make a 4 gig game?

Yes. No guarantee I'll download it, I just won't say it's too big.
#17 Jan 31 2010, 5:02 pm
There is no rule, and I believe BYOND's favorite objectivist came up with it.
#18 Jan 31 2010, 5:14 pm
I know SilkWizard made it, i said so in the blog.