Thanks. We'll look into this stuff. I agree that the hosted date should appear and that's something we can add. Expect refinements over the next week at least as we take in all of the suggestions.

Based on the expected response on day #1 here, I'm realizing that fully suppressing rips while maintaining our audience is going to be problematic. Admittedly, a lot of the dbz/naruto games were left listed simply because they had a lot of players. One problem is that nothing is ever a complete copy-- it's usually using pieces here and there and verifying that isn't something we, ourselves, can do (we have to leave it up to people like yourself who actually play the games, which can degenerate into hearsay).

What I'm leaning towards is a system where we group rips of the same type as "fans" of a single hub entry (which authorizes their status). We could encourage honesty-- if you make a rip, and the original owner is ok with it or moved on, then just go ahead and admit it. On the technical end, the rip would then only take up only a single entry in the listings and search, while still being accessible to people who like that sort of thing. Yeah, we might have "Zeta, 200 games, 2000 players", but that's better than the old system and probably the new one which still floods the page with a lot of similar games.

Stupid inception. Anyway, it is a pretty fine idea and I'm glad that the 2009 me thought so too.

Finale is a blatant Zeta rip, in every way. And though I didn't actually test that PVP one, it says its based on Finale - therefore its a Zeta rip as well.

It has the exact same graphics, poor character creation process, gameplay - or more like lack of gameplay. It also has a similar hub status - idiotically using world.address. The only difference is that is has GMs who enforce RP rules, and slightly more content - most rips hit that 2nd note. Please, tell me how it isn't?
This game is also a Zeta rip. However, its so heavily modified that I see no reason to remove it. The same can't be said about Finale, which is an almost identical clone. And then on top of that, Finale has multiple rips of itself, half of them are owned by the same moron on different keys, all claiming the game is original or an official spin-off or sequel. Even though he now seems to be revoking some such claims.

Super Saiyan X wrote:

Last I checked Zeta used a taller mob with a squarer head

I'm not 100% sure on that, though I'd find it ridiculously unlikely that they would go through the trouble of making the head squarer and 1 pixel shorter.

I'm pretty sure lots of the turfs and icons in Finale were created or given to the creator by the players.

First off, that's not even true, that's just the BS story he goes with. 2nd off, even if that was the case, it doesn't make them any less stolen.

Infact, Zeta and whatever the hell else used RPG Maker resources- same ones DBF has always used. Just because Zeta was the firs to use them, doesn't mean it's ripped from them. It's the same turfs every game has ever had.

That's odd, last I checked every game on BYOND didn't have the exact same graphics. In fact, only rips do.

Poor character creation processes?
Alerts and inputs = Zeta rip? WOW!

It does when its the exact same alerts, in the exact same order, with the exact same options. And that they aren't even a good idea for character creation in the first place, it makes little sense to copy them if you were actually making your own game

Lack of gameplay? It's an RP- there is no gameplay.

It has the same gameplay Zeta does. Clicking a verb to AFK train yourself. Clicking verbs to attack, use skills, gaining skills as you AFK train, buying clothes, etc.

The use of world.address...makes a game a rip? It's a good way to differentiate between servers on the pager, I do it for DBRP too, and I don't think DBF started to use it until like, 2008 or 9.

Anyone who actually knew what they were doing, and wasn't just flopping through an existing source, tweaking lines, hoping things will work out, would not be using world.address, as it displays a worthless local IP if the host is on a router. Doesn't make it very useful for differentiating between servers in that case.

Yeah...I don't think you've said anything that shows that it's a rip besides common features any game would have.

I wouldn't say a single thing in Finale, or Zeta rips in general are standard. Even here on BYOND most of the things are below par, especially at this stage of BYOND's development.

Generations, is actually based on an open version of DBRP, which was originally based on DBF.

Well then, those are all Zeta rips, aren't they? Whats your point?

I'll continue this discussion, when/if you can provide a single legit piece of evidence that Finale isn't a Zeta rip, otherwise I'm done wasting my time.

Thanks for this helpful list Falacy

http://www.byond.com/games/AllStarBANG/ DragonballzDarkApocalypse
http://www.byond.com/games/Mesalina62/ DragonballZInflictedSoulZ
http://www.byond.com/games/Daimaou/PVP
These are all set as rejected



But i'm not sure what action to take on these games as of the moment.
http://www.byond.com/games/Pylar/DragonballGTMW
http://www.byond.com/games/Dragonn/DBF
http://www.byond.com/games/Bishamon121/DragonBallPhoenix



This game has been set as incomplete and inactive
http://www.byond.com/games/Pom583/REZA


I'm not sure about this game, it looks pretty good to me and i cannot spot any obvious rippery
http://www.byond.com/games/Aeon_nova/deadandwalking



This game cannot be found anymore, it must have been dealt with or removed.
http://www.byond.com/games/Mesalina62/ ResidentEvilLeftForDead


http://www.byond.com/games/Grei/RaceWarz
i was on it for a while and it seemed to be quite well programmed, nothing appeared to be offensive, besides the title.

The inclusion of Phoenix makes me raise an eyebrow.

At the risk of sounding somewhat paranoid, I have to point out that Falacy was on our comment page not a month ago trolling for hits on his game.

I was also told by Stephen001 and several other folks that Falacy is looking to make his own RP game based on DBZ. Which ties into the screenshot below.

The topic on his personal forums, linked to the comments (Which i've since deleted, as our comments page was getting hit pretty hard by trolls. The forum comment in question that was made by Falacy was that he "would not stop until he got 1000 players". There was also the issue of the "I want to steal what makes the game good". Which is a very rippish statement to make.) tipped me off to the advertising, and eventually, after my frustration grew over his personality after several posts, prompted the deletion of his comments, and the cessation of any chat with him.

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8198/falacyscreen.png

Had he just asked for advice, I would have gladly given it. But his personality was hostile enough that I felt that any further conversation with him would not have lead to anything good.


Phoenix is pretty much nothing like Zeta, given what I know of Zeta itself.


All that being said, if you find content that is illegally ripped and submitted to the game (Currently, all of Phoenix's submitted icons are made and submitted by outside icon artists looking to contribute to the project. We also have systems in place to deal with folks who falsely submit icons and content that is not of their own original design.), I would ask that you please alert the development staff so we can open an investigation on the issue.

If we find that the icons called into question are illegally submitted, they will be removed, and, eventually, replaced with fitting replacements.

The offending artist or coder in question will be removed from the list of contributors, his other content will be looked at, and he or she will be permanently barred from submitting any future content.

I hope all this helps this issue.

Tom wrote:

While we may make mistakes here and there, we will try our best not to err on the side of delisting. And of course we won't simply take the word of someone who obviously has competing interests.

Shortly we will have a better way of communicating between the moderators and the authors so we don't have to do this nonsense out in the public. When there is doubt, the goal will simply be to clean up any controversial items.

I figured as much. I just wanted to point out my side of things.

It's a little off topic, but I didn't see anything about it on the web-site. Will this new system allow helpers (Listed as people who can help out designing the hub.) to talk with the moderators?

The Phoenix project has a rather large base of contributors, which is why I ask. The coding team itself ranges from 2 to 3 people, at any one time. And any trusted member of the community is allowed to submit icons to help with the development of the game.

The hub owner and owner of the game (I'm the coder and co-owner.) is Bishamon.

However, he currently isn't involved with the source, being more of an in-game presence, so he might not be up to date on the nuances of it if an issue comes up, regarding it, that needs to be resolved.

Tom wrote:

Yes, helpers and authors both.

Awesome.