ID:109542
 
Even once the Flash client is complete, will BYOND games really be able to provide any type of competition for true Flash games? Would anyone else rather play 8 hours of something like this rather than 10 minutes of anything on BYOND?
And on a related note http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z2Z23SAFVA
Neblim wrote:
will Flash's multiplayer games be able to be surpassed by Byond's, or at least on par with?

There are very few multi-player Flash games, so it depends on how you're looking at it? If all you're looking at is whether BYOND will allow you to more easily make multi-player Flash games, then yes. But the graphics, game-play, and production values won't be nearly the same quality. And with the initial release of the Flash client, it sounds like a lot of BYOND games will be losing functionality when played through Flash (no interface).
Best game ever! XD
Neblim wrote:
Then the next question is, will Tom and Lummox eventually go further to get it out of "beta" sort of speak to provide the extra/same functionality?

That is ultimately their goal, yes.
Neblim wrote:
I REALLY would like to know what those are, as I am a bit concerned with this also. Very very good point. Then the next question is, will Tom and Lummox eventually go further to get it out of "beta" sort of speak to provide the extra/same functionality? I wouldn't judge something too harshly in a beta state though.

Read Tom's posts in this thread:
http://www.byond.com/developer/forum/?id=764707&display=1

It outlines their goals for the initial release, as well as what they hope to eventually implement.

"The initial release will probably be something like 3.5, where we have limited UI support. The end goal is full 4.0 compatibility."
There are plenty of good games on BYOND for those who aren't too lazy to look.
Where? Are there any games you would be willing to pay for? Or even any good enough that you would recommend/invite your friends to play? Any that could be published on a well known platform?
NEStalgia, Casual Quest, Teridal, Decadence, Regressia, Stolen Lands, Ultimatum, Plunder Gnome, Efencea, Proelium 1 and 2, Tomb Explorer, and also many of ACWraith's games, although not presented well, make great party games; just to name a few of my favorites. I have paid for the full version of Regressia and am subscribed to NEStalgia and Casual Quest.

I challenge you to find a multiplayer flash game that's worth playing. I've seen them, and they're riddle with bugs, graphical glitches, and slow game-play. BYOND games ported to flash will likely suffer from the same flaws but it's a huge step forward in the sense that we can now submit our games to sites such as Kongregate or Newgrounds.
Adventure Quest Worlds is an extremely popular MMORPG made with flash.
Falacy wrote:
Where? Are there any games you would be willing to pay for? Or even any good enough that you would recommend/invite your friends to play? Any that could be published on a well known platform?

Actually I feel that casual quest could be published on Xbox live as a small party arcade game if Iain ported it over.
Cody123100 wrote:
Actually I feel that casual quest could be published on Xbox live as a small party arcade game if Iain ported it over.

It doesn't even have sound...
Falacy there are many great games... unfortunatly you only look for the ones that can make money... instead of just leisurfe... mitidake high, murder mansion, mafia, and death note are some good ones based on role playing
C_Dawg_S wrote:
NEStalgia, Casual Quest, Teridal, Decadence, Regressia, Stolen Lands, Ultimatum, Plunder Gnome, Efencea, Proelium 1 and 2, Tomb Explorer, and also many of ACWraith's games, although not presented well, make great party games; just to name a few of my favorites.

- Efencea is really nice, probably the only game on BYOND that doesn't look or feel like it was made with BYOND, but its unfinished.
- Decadence and Ultimatum are both good games. However, their appeal comes almost entirely from visuals - both in-game graphics and the use of interfaces. Also, since these games don't have AI, they lose a ton of value, especially since they are almost always vacant.
- NEStalgia, Casual Quest, and Regressia are all designed to emulate games that have been outdated for decades...
- Tomb Explorer = a spin-off of minesweeper? Not to say that its bad, just not something I would be willing to invest any real time or money into.
Ss4gogeta0 wrote:
unfortunatly you only look for the ones that can make money...

That's how the world works. Get used to it. Even if you want to ignore the profit side of things, you at least have to consider the ability to pull in players, which practically no BYOND games exhibit. I've seen private servers of WoW with more players online than the entirety of BYOND for that matter. Even some FPS games, like CoD, get hundreds of thousands more players online at a time.

mitidake high, murder mansion, mafia, and death note are some good ones based on role playing

All of those games run under the same concept, and from what I've seen Murder Mansion is by far the greatest of them. The only decent one for that matter. Being "based on role playing" basically means your game isn't a game. Its a chat room with graphics. Especially when there isn't game-play to back it up, like in most of those examples, or in the GMod equivalent of them. The reason why Murder Mansion stands out. MM even offers AI.
Wait, are you saying you're disappointed that games on BYOND aren't on par with titles developed by professional teams backed by beaucoup bucks? This is a hobbyist developer community, they are trained professionals.

Also, I would like to point out that Flash Professional (which you would need to legally charge for your game) is $700. The BYOND software is free.

Honestly, I've never played a Flash game for more than an hour or two at best (Road of the Dead being one such example) before discarding it to never return again. They're easy to get in to, but they don't have much shelf life or replay value. That's where BYOND's networking gives it an edge.

Really, though, I think my greatest appeal to BYOND games when I first started out was that you could play a game, and run into its developer(s). Hell, you could suggest a feature and have it implemented thirty minutes later! It's a completely different kind of dynamic, almost a form of meta-gaming.
DarkCampainger wrote:
Wait, are you saying you're disappointed that games on BYOND aren't on par with titles developed by professional teams backed by beaucoup bucks? This is a hobbyist developer community, they are trained professionals.
That's not my point here, though that is a pretty blatant fact. Honestly though, that's much more of an engine limitation issue than it is anything to do with available manpower.
I'm only comparing them to Flash games, which they'll soon be mingling with. Flash games would fall under that same hobbyist category.


> Also, I would like to point out that Flash Professional (which you would need to legally charge for your game) is $700. The BYOND software is free.
Unity is more impressive than Flash in just about every way, and is available for free. Its also quite easy to get a cracked version of Flash, and I think they even have a legit trial on their site, or at least they used to.

> Honestly, I've never played a Flash game for more than an hour or two at best (Road of the Dead being one such example) before discarding it to never return again. They're easy to get in to, but they don't have much shelf life or replay value. That's where BYOND's networking gives it an edge.
That's more or less how Flash games are intentionally designed. Since almost all of them are single player, they offer a somewhat linear experience, like any single player game. There's a defined start and end point in most Flash games, and its usually a very short trip between those points.
Falacy wrote:
That's not my point here, though that is a pretty blatant fact. Honestly though, that's much more of an engine limitation issue than it is anything to do with available manpower.
I'm only comparing them to Flash games, which they'll soon be mingling with. Flash games would fall under that same hobbyist category.

Most of the top-tier Flash games are produced by companies or have sponsors.

Unity is more impressive than Flash in just about every way, and its available for free. Its also quite easy to get a cracked version of Flash, and I think they even have a legit trial on their site, or at least they used to.

Well, part of my point was that if you wanted to make a game that people would (could) pay for, you would need a legal license of Flash Pro. As far as Unity goes, if it can't be embedded in a browser, it's in a whole different ballpark of expectations.

That's more or less how flash games are intentionally designed. Since almost all of them are single player, they offer a somewhat linear experience, like any single player game. There's a defined start and end point in most flash games, and its usually a very short trip between those points.

Well there you go, you just answered your own question. That's how BYOND games will compete: they won't be the short, linear experience people are used to.
DarkCampainger wrote:
As far as Unity goes, if it can't be embedded in a browser, it's in a whole different ballpark of expectations.

It can be. It can also be used to make iphone and console products.

That's how BYOND games will compete: they won't be the linear experience people are used to.

lol I'm not really sure if that's competition, but it should at least draw players. From both a Flash and BYOND perspective.
Falacy wrote:
Decadence and Ultimatum are both good games. However, their appeal comes almost entirely from visuals - both in-game graphics and the use of interfaces. Also, since these games don't have AI, they lose a ton of value, especially since they are almost always vacant.

Is that so? I had always assumed people liked Decadence because of the tightly integrated gameplay mechanics. If you compare Decadence to other "similar" games the closest you could probably come up with is Counter-Strike 2D, the main difference being the art style.

What you may not understand is the art isn't just there for show. Cover, a key component in Decadence, wouldn't be possible with the bird's-eye perspective. The current perspective was carefully thought over and chosen because of the many advantages it provides, advantages such as being able to easily display elevation to the player. Having a unique art style is a by-product of that design choice.

Also, I'm still drawing ideas for bots. I've had several artists all fired up to draw a bunch of zombies but Every. Single. Time. they'll come back with a few sketches and drop off the face of the internet. Right now I've decided to devote my time to adding new maps and game modes then come back to bots later.
SuperAntx wrote:
If you compare Decadence to other "similar" games the closest you could probably come up with is Counter-Strike 2D, the main difference being the art style.
Alien swarm is somewhat similar, though technically 3D, and not PvP. And it actually allows you to shoot where you're aiming...

What you may not understand is the art isn't just there for show. Cover, a key component in Decadence, wouldn't be possible with the bird's-eye perspective.
You mean the same view used in 99.9% of BYOND games? What a decision...

Also, I'm still drawing ideas for bots.
Make them run around, and shoot at things, IDEA COMPLETE.

I've had several artists all fired up to draw a bunch of zombies but Every. Single. Time. they'll come back with a few sketches and drop off the face of the internet.
Why are they wasting time sketching instead of just making the icons? Just turn your current icons gray/green and take away their guns. Though I'm not sure why you're concerned about zombies before actual player-like bots.

Right now I've decided to devote my time to adding new maps and game modes then come back to bots later.
Those additions won't really matter if you can't actually play them (with bots!). You could at least make the server limits high. If 6 players leave a 64 player match its not much of an issue, but if they leave one with only 8, you're pretty much empty. Make a giant map with team based objectives scattered about for 256 players to compete on =P
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