ID:182459
 
How is GTA4 scoring perfect reviews? This is one of the worst games I've played, not only has almost everything in it been done better in SA but the camera and controls have been sent to the crapper. At absolute best this game deserves a 4/10.
I do agree but the graphics are far better than SA but not as good as the old school GTA birds eye view :P.

The camera would be confusing but ive played tons of driving games with that and its fine.
In response to A.T.H.K (#1)
A.T.H.K wrote:
The camera would be confusing but ive played tons of driving games with that and its fine.

I'm talking about the camera becoming completely useless when moving, you might as well just close your eyes if you plan on looking around while in motion because you're not going to be seeing much except whats right in front of you with the crap camera control they give you
In response to Falacy (#2)
Yea well GTA's gone down hill ever since VC ive given up on them.
In response to A.T.H.K (#3)
welp, whatever, screw this game, the more I play it the more I see how badly it sucks, definetly makes the list of top 25 worst games I've ever played
In response to Falacy (#4)
Chuck on GOW :D thats if you got a 360.
In response to A.T.H.K (#5)
its for PC too aint it
In response to Falacy (#6)
Heh what do you know it is :P.
Falacy wrote:
How is GTA4 scoring perfect reviews? This is one of the worst games I've played, not only has almost everything in it been done better in SA but the camera and controls have been sent to the crapper. At absolute best this game deserves a 4/10.

Please state some reasons why you believe Grand Theft Auto 4 "sucks", besides saying the controls and camera suck.

I personally found the game much more fun, epsecially online mode. But that's just me, I'm more of an action shooter guy myself.
I've always been biased against the GTA games.
Honestly, I've always thought all the GTA games sucked and had a fun value of 0. But thats just me.

But I've been wondering the same thing, people are claiming this game is the best thing ever, and it's getting high scores everywhere. So I pick it up and give it a chance, and the first thing I notice is that the AI is some of the worst I've ever seen for the cops.

Seriously, when you can jack a car infront of a cop, speed off with it, go over a bridge and land on a lower level with said car, back up into a cop car, get out and jack another car next to the cop and run the guy over, there has to be something wrong when I get 0 stars for all that. Hell, I've spawned Helicopters and went around shooting people with it and even then it took awhile for me to get any wanted stars :|

The camera didn't really bother me, and I was suprised by it's graphics. Usually GTA games are horrid or behind the times when it comes to graphics.

Personally, 4/10 is too giving for this game, but thats just me.
In response to Dead_Demon (#9)
Sounds like a bit of over exageration, I can get a cop on me if I steal a car and a cop near by sees me do it. Even if I just attempt to see if the car is locked raises my wanted level.

The AI is bad in some parts I will admit.

Camera control is not an issue for me as I can turn corners and turn the camera as well, it is a bit annoying but I find the gameplay and storyline really great.
In response to 172.16.0.1 (#8)
172.16.0.1 wrote:
Please state some reasons why you believe Grand Theft Auto 4 "sucks", besides saying the controls and camera suck.

- The graphics are ok, not great
- The AI is a retarded pain in the ass.
* Cab drivers get stuck between stuff, hell sometimes they get stuck even when theres nothing in their way
* When you flag down a cab they basicaly hurl themselves into the middle of the sidewalk to pick you up, I've even been run over by them a couple of times during this process
* Combat is also a pain, I dont enjoy spending 10 minutes shooting at the same guy just because hes ducking behind a crate
- WTF are the jamaicans saying? Even with subtitles on I couldnt understand them half of the time
- Due to unexpected AI actions and just plain unexpected circumstances/objectives in missions, which usualy arent explained very well, you have to do almost all of them multiple times
- Theres no in-game save system so you basicaly cant save your progress during anything. You either have to rely on the autosave or go all the way back to your house.
- They tried to give the game a realistic movement system: preventing you from making quick-turns, which takes a while to get used to and even after the you do its still anoying in alot of cases.
- The controls are horribly mapped on the controler, you can tell this game was designed for the 360 and basicaly ported to the ps3
- When moving; the camera control may as well be disabled, since you wont be acomplishing anything usefull with it
- Freedom to do anything like everyone claims? Hardly, sure you can wander around the town (within the preset limits of your current story progress) but what does this accomplish? Nothing, thats what. Sure I can murder random people on the streets, steal their cars, mess with the cops, but thats not exactly freedom, thats ALL the game has to offer. I cant kill off any of the people I deal with in the story. You end up killing Vlad anyway, why cant I just shoot him in the face the first time I meet him? There arent multiple ways to take on missions, there arent multiple ways to play the game. Its a straight: get your gun, go chase down some losers, then shoot them to death.
- Almost everything in this game has been done better in SA, the story is much better there, the controls were much better, the "freedom" felt much more free, and the city was actualy worth exploring.
- The cover system could have been nice, but in 90% of the situations where you need it there isnt anywhere decent to take cover, and when the AI uses it they become a pain to kill. Aside from the few preset missions that GIVE you the cover, this system is fail.
- The auto aim SUCKS, you aim at litteraly everyone when trying to scroll through targets, meaning youll be shooting the inocent girl in the face by acident instead of aiming at the gangster pointing his ak47 at your face.
- Manual aim is far to difficult to ever actualy get pointed at your target due to the flucations in speed that the cursor moves at, especialy if youre moving, not to mention you have to half-hold the button to use it
- Attempting to aim/shoot while driving is near imposible due to the combination of the buttons you have to press and the crap aim system the game uses
- The auto-aim in combination with the cover system provides epicaly slow reaction times and makes it pretty useless
- 99.9% of the buildings in the game cant be entered and just have drawings of their interiors stuck in the windows and doors
- Cars become imposible to drive unless you go so slow that theyre not even worth using
- They removed the leveling systems which were one of the best parts of SA. Eating to get fat, working out to get muscular, running to get more stamina, riding bikes to get higher bike skills... you get the point
- Not sure if its a bug, or just the game being stupid, but it likes to randomly unequip my clothes, especialy my hat!
- Several of the controls interfere with eachother and constantly mess up the game, especialy buttons that relate to phone calls (phone calls also acidently get canceled if you fall any distance and various other actions)
- Almost all of the radio stations completely suck, as they play a random 30 seconds of a song and then talk about the same random crap for 5 minutes
- As in all GTA games the 90% of the dialog is unnessarily offensive. I still dont see why they havent added a censor feature. I have no desire to hear people say the F word 50 times in a conversation
- Cops are selfish pricks, you can have a head on colision right in front of them, then run over 50 civilians on the side walk while going 100 mph and they wont care, but back into one of them going 5mph and theyll be all over you

This game only does 3 things that are even worth mentioning:
1. The GPS system. which is also used by the cab drivers AI I'd assume, though as I pointed out above they get easily confused.
2. The phone/internet system contains the most depth youll find anywhere in this game, not that thats saying much as 90% of the websites on the internet are just for display and the phone can only call preset people (aside from a few #s you may find around the game and 911)
3. The activities/relationships you can perform with the NPCs in the game are a good concept, though in execution most of them fail, none of the minigames are really any fun to play and half of the activities are basicaly just you stepping on a yellow arrow and then it skipping past any actual interaction between you and the NPC during said activity (like eating, clubbing, or hitting a bar)
In response to Falacy (#6)
Falacy wrote:
its for PC too aint it

Not as far as I've seen -- but with the removal of planes, the game becomes less fun for me: how am I to do a barrel roll in my awesome stunt plane whilst singing a random song out loud like crazy?

-- Data
In response to Android Data (#12)
that comment about the game being for PC was about GoW not GTA4
In response to Falacy (#11)
Falacy wrote:
- The graphics are ok, not great

The graphics are wonderful! I don't see how this makes GTA4 a crappy game, though, seeing as how in the past, the graphics for GTA were... subpar.


- The AI is a retarded pain in the ass.

How is it "retarded?" They aren't running around, groaning and wearing helmets. The AI seems just about to the same effect as the previous GTAs.


When you flag down a cab they basicaly hurl themselves into the middle of the sidewalk to pick you up, I've even been run over by them a couple of times during this process

That's a feature, not a reason GTA4 is bad! Crazy taxi ftw! Seriously, don't stand so close to the road.


Combat is also a pain, I dont enjoy spending 10 minutes shooting at the same guy just because hes ducking behind a crate

I suppose Rockstar should apologize for you not being up to the challenge or man enough to go flush him out. Combat is even better, in my opinion.


- WTF are the jamaicans saying? Even with subtitles on I couldnt understand them half of the time

I understood them, but y'know... I live around Jamaicans. I suppose you want no cultural diversity, no feeling of authenticity at all. That's all right.


- Due to unexpected AI actions and just plain unexpected circumstances/objectives in missions, which usualy arent explained very well, you have to do almost all of them multiple times

As opposed to completely boring, linear gameplay? I say bring on the challenge!


- Theres no in-game save system so you basicaly cant save your progress during anything. You either have to rely on the autosave or go all the way back to your house.

Again, this has been a feature in every major GTA game. I'll agree with you, it is very annoying, but once you acquire some assets, you'll be all right.


- The controls are horribly mapped on the controler, you can tell this game was designed for the 360 and basicaly ported to the ps3

The controls are fine! You can change them if you'd like.


- When moving; the camera control may as well be disabled, since you wont be acomplishing anything usefull with it

I hadn't noticed anything wrong with it, but I've adapted to horrible camera controls in the past.


- Freedom to do anything like everyone claims? Hardly, sure you can wander around the town (within the preset limits of your current story progress) but what does this accomplish? Nothing, thats what. Sure I can murder random people on the streets, steal their cars, mess with the cops, but thats not exactly freedom, thats ALL the game has to offer. I cant kill off any of the people I deal with in the story. You end up killing Vlad anyway, why cant I just shoot him in the face the first time I meet him? There arent multiple ways to take on missions, there arent multiple ways to play the game. Its a straight: get your gun, go chase down some losers, then shoot them to death.

You're being overly simplistic. There is a lot of stuff to do in the game, like driving, flying, rampaging, buying things, exploring the city, finding secrets, racing, multiplayer (fun fun!), start fights, run from the cops, make crazy stuntman-styled jumps, etc... Easily a lot more to offer than most games. Shooters tend to have you run through missions and shoot people. Racing games tend to have you run through races and win. I don't see the issue.


- Almost everything in this game has been done better in SA, the story is much better there, the controls were much better, the "freedom" felt much more free, and the city was actualy worth exploring.

GTASA ws probably my least favorite GTA game ever. The story was lame and Grove Street blows. Guess it was too gangster for me, though. I prefer some sophistication and organization when I commit my crimes! The only things better about GTASA were the planes, skydiving, jetpack, the ability to climb walls, and the car customization. I think VC was damn good, and I think GTA4 is even better. But all of this is a matter of opinion.


- The cover system could have been nice, but in 90% of the situations where you need it there isnt anywhere decent to take cover, and when the AI uses it they become a pain to kill. Aside from the few preset missions that GIVE you the cover, this system is fail.

There's always been cover for me... Perhaps you aren't being creative enough. What's wrong with the AI using it? Nothing! However, the ability to use it does not reflect on the actual system itself, but the interface. The covering system was NICE!


- The auto aim SUCKS, you aim at litteraly everyone when trying to scroll through targets, meaning youll be shooting the inocent girl in the face by acident instead of aiming at the gangster pointing his ak47 at your face.

You aim to the closest target precisely in the direction you look. Perhaps if you, I dunno... looked in the direction of the target, you'd be all right. Regarding shooting the little girl, that's your fault, not GTAs. Now that you mention it, though, I've never seen a child in that game...


- Manual aim is far to difficult to ever actualy get pointed at your target due to the flucations in speed that the cursor moves at, especialy if youre moving, not to mention you have to half-hold the button to use it

No problem here. It just takes a little getting used to.


- The auto-aim in combination with the cover system provides epicaly slow reaction times and makes it pretty useless

I don't have this problem, either.


- 99.9% of the buildings in the game cant be entered and just have drawings of their interiors stuck in the windows and doors

As much as an exaggeration as that is, it seems about right. :O
But the same can be said for every GTA game.


- Cars become imposible to drive unless you go so slow that theyre not even worth using

They absolutely do not! You're doing it wrong!


- They removed the leveling systems which were one of the best parts of SA. Eating to get fat, working out to get muscular, running to get more stamina, riding bikes to get higher bike skills... you get the point

That system was a waste of time. It was fun sometimes, but who really cares about that stuff? No one really wants to sit around, leveling their character in a GTA game.


- Not sure if its a bug, or just the game being stupid, but it likes to randomly unequip my clothes, especialy my hat!

I've never witnessed this problem.


- Several of the controls interfere with eachother and constantly mess up the game, especialy buttons that relate to phone calls (phone calls also acidently get canceled if you fall any distance and various other actions)

Perhaps you should try not fall off a cliff while on your cellphone? Anyone sensible would ditch the phone and try to land safely, because it's instinct. There really is no problem with interfering controls if you're patient and pay attention.


- Almost all of the radio stations completely suck, as they play a random 30 seconds of a song and then talk about random stuff for 5 minutes

Exaggeration? I've not witnessed this. Poor reason for the game sucking.


- As in all GTA games the 90% of the dialog is unnessarily offensive. I still dont see why they havent added a censor feature. I have no desire to hear people say the F word 50 times in a conversation

Definitely an exaggeration, and not a very valid reason why the game sucks. GTASA was even WORSE in this aspect.
In response to CaptFalcon33035 (#14)
CaptFalcon33035 wrote:
- Due to unexpected AI actions and just plain unexpected circumstances/objectives in missions, which usualy arent explained very well, you have to do almost all of them multiple times

As opposed to completely boring, linear gameplay? I say bring on the challenge!

1st off: Its not the non-linearness that makes it a challenge, its the fact that you get no warning of anything. They tell you to go kill 1 target and you end up having to kill 5, or your target randomly jumps into a car and drives off when you're too far from a vehicle to have any chance of catching them.
2nd off: This game IS linear. You HAVE to complete the story to progress through the game. The only game I've ever seen thats non-linear is Oblivion. Sure you may not have to do every mission right away, in some preset order. But so what? All the missions still play out the same regardless. In that case no game is linear, just kill the enemies that pop up in a different order and woo you have a whole new experience? If you say so.


- Freedom to do anything like everyone claims? Hardly, sure you can wander around the town (within the preset limits of your current story progress) but what does this accomplish? Nothing, thats what. Sure I can murder random people on the streets, steal their cars, mess with the cops, but thats not exactly freedom, thats ALL the game has to offer. I cant kill off any of the people I deal with in the story. You end up killing Vlad anyway, why cant I just shoot him in the face the first time I meet him? There arent multiple ways to take on missions, there arent multiple ways to play the game. Its a straight: get your gun, go chase down some losers, then shoot them to death.

You're being overly simplistic. There is a lot of stuff to do in the game, like driving, flying, rampaging, buying things, exploring the city, finding secrets, racing, multiplayer (fun fun!), start fights, run from the cops, make crazy stuntman-styled jumps, etc... Easily a lot more to offer than most games. Shooters tend to have you run through missions and shoot people. Racing games tend to have you run through races and win. I don't see the issue.

Roaming around acomplishes litteraly nothing. Why am I going to spend 8 hours messing around in the game if I get nothing for it? At least in SA there was stat leveling and random money/weapon acquisition. In GTA4 free-play does nothing but waste time.

- The auto aim SUCKS, you aim at litteraly everyone when trying to scroll through targets, meaning youll be shooting the inocent girl in the face by acident instead of aiming at the gangster pointing his ak47 at your face.

You aim to the closest target precisely in the direction you look. Perhaps if you, I dunno... looked in the direction of the target, you'd be all right. Regarding shooting the little girl, that's your fault, not GTAs. Now that you mention it, though, I've never seen a child in that game...

Yea you aim at the closets one, then when you switch targets (which is my complaint here) you go through everybody, instead of only hostiles. And I never said it was a child

- The auto-aim in combination with the cover system provides epicaly slow reaction times and makes it pretty useless

I don't have this problem, either.

If you and your opponent are behind cover, when they pop out to shoot you, half of the time by the time you get around the corner to shoot back theyre already back behind cover

- They removed the leveling systems which were one of the best parts of SA. Eating to get fat, working out to get muscular, running to get more stamina, riding bikes to get higher bike skills... you get the point

That system was a waste of time. It was fun sometimes, but who really cares about that stuff? No one really wants to sit around, leveling their character in a GTA game.

It wasnt a waste of time, the stats actualy effected gameplay, and 90% of them automaticaly leveled as you played the game, which is what made the game worth playing, sofar im like 12 hours into GTA4 and dont feel like I've acomplished anything at all

- Not sure if its a bug, or just the game being stupid, but it likes to randomly unequip my clothes, especialy my hat!

I've never witnessed this problem.

Wear a hat and see?

- Several of the controls interfere with eachother and constantly mess up the game, especialy buttons that relate to phone calls (phone calls also acidently get canceled if you fall any distance and various other actions)

Perhaps you should try not fall off a cliff while on your cellphone? Anyone sensible would ditch the phone and try to land safely, because it's instinct. There really is no problem with interfering controls if you're patient and pay attention.

Not a cliff, the slightest drop triggers it, and depending on where you are when you get a phone call this can be a problem. Also a cab ride ending will automaticaly exit you from the vehicle and kill your phone call

- As in all GTA games the 90% of the dialog is unnessarily offensive. I still dont see why they havent added a censor feature. I have no desire to hear people say the F word 50 times in a conversation

Definitely an exaggeration, and not a very valid reason why the game sucks. GTASA was even WORSE in this aspect.

I havent seen 1 cutscene yet in the game that hasnt used the F word at least once. not to mention all the random stuff that happens on the streets that triggers it, simply bumping into somebody causes them to cuss you out
In response to Falacy (#11)
Falacy wrote:
* When you flag down a cab they basicaly hurl themselves into the middle of the sidewalk to pick you up

Sounds like NYC.
In response to Android Data (#12)
Android Data wrote:
but with the removal of planes, the game becomes less fun for me: how am I to do a barrel roll in my awesome stunt plane whilst singing a random song out loud like crazy?


I agree the planes were the best thing in SA i loved flying the jumbo so hard to control but yet so fun especially with the added feature of parachutes :D.
In response to Falacy (#15)
Falacy wrote:
1st off: Its not the non-linearness that makes it a challenge, its the fact that you get no warning of anything. They tell you to go kill 1 target and you end up having to kill 5, or your target randomly jumps into a car and drives off when you're too far from a vehicle to have any chance of catching them.

Since when did you need a warning? [Excrement] happens, and that seems to be a recurring theme throughout the entire story. It's fun to me!


2nd off: This game IS linear. You HAVE to complete the story to progress through the game. The only game I've ever seen thats non-linear is Oblivion. Sure you may not have to do every mission right away, in some preset order. But so what? All the missions still play out the same regardless. In that case no game is linear, just kill the enemies that pop up in a different order and woo you have a whole new experience? If you say so.

The story is linear, the gameplay is not. Notice I said gameplay. The idea behind this is that you must do these missions, but you can do them when you want and how you want, just like always.


Roaming around acomplishes litteraly nothing. Why am I going to spend 8 hours messing around in the game if I get nothing for it? At least in SA there was stat leveling and random money/weapon acquisition. In GTA4 free-play does nothing but waste time.

I never said /you/ had to enjoy it, I just said that GTA4 provides players with a lot more to do than most games. I don't play games to get things out of them, I play them for fun.


Yea you aim at the closets one, then when you switch targets (which is my complaint here) you go through everybody, instead of only hostiles. And I never said it was a child

I see--but I must say, I would also hate it if it didn't cycle through non-hostiles when I am on a stress-relieving rampage. That's just funsucking right there. If it's such a big deal, use the manual-aim function.


If you and your opponent are behind cover, when they pop out to shoot you, half of the time by the time you get around the corner to shoot back theyre already back behind cover

So? Just hang out until he pops out again, or better yet, go and fetch him. I don't see an issue at all. Maybe it's an inconvenience for the serious gamer, but I've never taken GTA seriously. It's simply a fun game.


It wasnt a waste of time, the stats actualy effected gameplay, and 90% of them automaticaly leveled as you played the game, which is what made the game worth playing, sofar im like 12 hours into GTA4 and dont feel like I've acomplished anything at all

That is a matter of opinion. The game did not need those stats and hardly anyone even wanted those stats. It was a waste of time to me.


Wear a hat and see?

I've been trying this all day.


Not a cliff, the slightest drop triggers it, and depending on where you are when you get a phone call this can be a problem. Also a cab ride ending will automaticaly exit you from the vehicle and kill your phone call

Ah.


I havent seen 1 cutscene yet in the game that hasnt used the F word at least once. not to mention all the random stuff that happens on the streets that triggers it, simply bumping into somebody causes them to cuss you out

Okay? If you look, I never disagreed with that. I was referring to the use of the 90% statistic, which was certainly inaccurate. What that means is they talk something like "[STREAM OF PROFANITY] kill."
In response to CaptFalcon33035 (#18)
CaptFalcon33035 wrote:
Okay? If you look, I never disagreed with that. I was referring to the use of the 90% statistic, which was certainly inaccurate. What that means is they talk something like "[STREAM OF PROFANITY] kill."

lol, they might as well talk like that, thats about all I got from the first hour or so of the game anyway
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