I agree. Its terrible. A game without gameplay is just a shiny piece of crap.

You can shine a turd to make it prettier but its still a turd.

You can scrape all the paint off of a BMW but its STILL a BMW.

I'd rather have the BMW than the polished turd any day.
In response to 172.16.0.1 (#8)
172.16.0.1 wrote:
Falacy wrote:
How is GTA4 scoring perfect reviews? This is one of the worst games I've played, not only has almost everything in it been done better in SA but the camera and controls have been sent to the crapper. At absolute best this game deserves a 4/10.

Please state some reasons why you believe Grand Theft Auto 4 "sucks", besides saying the controls and camera suck.

I personally found the game much more fun, epsecially online mode. But that's just me, I'm more of an action shooter guy myself.

The controls and camera suck, what else is there? Thats two core aspects of gameplay: 1) See your guy. 2) Control your guy.

If you cant do that, then the game sucks.
In response to Dragonn (#21)
I've not had any qualms with the controls or the camera.
Graphics wise, I don't care. I've never cared about the graphics of a game. GTA 4 looks pretty to me.

Control wise, when I first started playing the game, I was like: "WTF!?" Mainly because the controls were not the same as they were in the previous 3D GTA games. I decided to give the game a second chance because of this, and I like it. The controls are more friendly in my opinion.

Yes, being run over by cars all the time is a bit annoying, but in my opinion, it adds some more fun to the game. Can you run out in a street to steal a car without being run over? I can now!

Enemies ducking behind walls also adds some fun to it. If they stand out in the open, it's too easy. Far too easy. You can either get them from long distance with a sniper rile or just shoot them all well before your body armour is depleted.

Understanding Little Jacob isn't really necessary, the game provides you with all the information you need to finish a mission. Drive to some place, kill the guy with the red arrow, mission done.

-addition:
Also, the camera is fine. I can always see my guy. But then again, I manually move the camera while I play. It's a second instinct of mine and it comes naturally. This is something I find to be another good aspect of the game. It helps improve reflexes if you need to control the camera yourself.

I think GTA IV is fun. And I enjoy playing it. We have five other games on the play station, and not one of them will be touched until my brother and I finish GTA IV, because we are enjoying it that much.
In response to Tiberath (#23)
Tiberath wrote:
Also, the camera is fine. I can always see my guy. But then again, I manually move the camera while I play. It's a second instinct of mine and it comes naturally. This is something I find to be another good aspect of the game. It helps improve reflexes if you need to control the camera yourself.

Manual control IS the problem with the camera! You dont have it at all, you can use it semi-decently when standing still, but during motion manual camera control is pretty much impossible

I think GTA IV is fun. And I enjoy playing it. We have five other games on the play station, and not one of them will be touched until my brother and I finish GTA IV, because we are enjoying it that much.

If you have a ps3 get metal gear solid 4, as its the best game of all time and owns GTA by ungodly amounts
In response to Falacy (#24)
You don't like the enemies taking advantage of the cover system and don't know how to use the camera? Perhaps you should stop for a second and realize that it's not the games that suck. It's you.
In response to Dragonn (#21)
Dragonn wrote:
If you cant do that, then the game sucks.

I've come to the conclusion that you gentlemen have not been using the Select button you change the camera view mode.
In response to Popisfizzy (#22)
The camera while in a car was a little low by default. I did have to sit there holding the second stick to get it into a better angle. It's not too bad, but GTAIII games had camera angles. I dealt with it for the first few hours, and after that it wasn't a big deal, because I mastered the camera.

As for the controls them selves, I found them great. It was a big change from the III games, but they were a good change. My only complaint is that they kept the whole "tap X to run" system, which is just annoying.

The biggest upgrade in GTA4 is the story line. That alone makes it a worthwhile upgrade. Although the main character was little schizophrenic, all together the story was interesting and compelled me to complete it. This is a big step up from SA where I only completed it in hopes of a reward. My only hope is the next version of GTA gets a little more care to the story.

My biggest problem with 4 is that there were no tanks! I know it sounds silly, but I loved rampaging in a tank, being almost unstoppable. It was really fun while just free roaming.
In response to Danial.Beta (#27)
Danial.Beta wrote:
The camera while in a car was a little low by default. I did have to sit there holding the second stick to get it into a better angle.

Actually you can change the camera angle while in the car by pressing select.
In response to Superman12 (#28)
Even with that(I always had the camera at 3rd zoom out) the angle was a little poor. When you started going fast, it would drop behind you, meaning you could see farther, but because cars still popup in front of you, you don't see them till you hit them.
In response to Danial.Beta (#27)
Danial.Beta wrote:
The biggest upgrade in GTA4 is the story line. That alone makes it a worthwhile upgrade. Although the main character was little schizophrenic, all together the story was interesting and compelled me to complete it. This is a big step up from SA where I only completed it in hopes of a reward. My only hope is the next version of GTA gets a little more care to the story.

Are you serious about that? GTA4 barely even has a story. almost the entire game I've experienced sofar isnt even linked together, its just a bunch of random missions for random people that barely connect with eachother. At least GTASA had one overall plot in the background for the entirety of the game. Not to mention all the gameplay features in GTASA that make it far superior to the peice of crap that is 4

and as for the camera, as I've already pointed out serveral times, regardless of what you people want to claim: When moving the camera becomes a completely useless hinderance on the game
In response to Falacy (#30)
Then you haven't played far enough through the game. There is a full story, and most of the people you meet take part in an overall story at some point. Then end ties several mission paths together.

Really though, the story is a man making himself a home in a new land. That is the story. So when you look at it that way, everything is important, because he is doing just that. In SA I honestly can't remember much of a story except for "Hey CJ, we are going to go do this thing, and you are going to do all the work for us". In SA the voice acting sucked, the writing was bland, and all together it the story wasn't compelling.

The leveling up stuff is subjective, but I rather disliked the system. I was happy to see it gone. And what other game play features did SA have? Worse car physics? Stupider cops? Closer loading zones?

As I said before, I do agree that the camera angle in a car needs some work, but I had no troubles, even when racing, controlling the camera to my likings. That is one skill I mastered years ago while playing adventure games.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and it is perfectly valid for you to enjoy SA more than 4, but to say it is better is just plain wrong. 4 was a big step for the GTA series, and it was a step in the right direction in almost every way.
In response to Falacy (#30)
Falacy wrote:
Are you serious about that? GTA4 barely even has a story. almost the entire game I've experienced sofar isnt even linked together, its just a bunch of random missions for random people that barely connect with eachother. At least GTASA had one overall plot in the background for the entirety of the game. Not to mention all the gameplay features in GTASA that make it far superior to the peice of crap that is 4

I don't know what you're playing at here. Especially considering SA's main plot was for a fact broken up to parts, since after its beginning the main character basically leaves the scene and avoids that plot until the near-end of the game where it is then resumed, and there aren't really much connections between all parts.

and as for the camera, as I've already pointed out serveral times,

Yes, and as people have pointed out "serveral" times already, most people disagree with your opinion. There's no need to repeat yourself, it won't change anything. Apparently all of the game's ratings/awards aren't purely out of thin air, and some people like it. Can't you live with it?
In response to Danial.Beta (#31)
Danial.Beta wrote:
Then you haven't played far enough through the game. There is a full story, and most of the people you meet take part in an overall story at some point. Then end ties several mission paths together.

I'm already on the last island, I figure I'm somewhat far along

Really though, the story is a man making himself a home in a new land. That is the story. So when you look at it that way, everything is important, because he is doing just that. In SA I honestly can't remember much of a story except for "Hey CJ, we are going to go do this thing, and you are going to do all the work for us". In SA the voice acting sucked, the writing was bland, and all together it the story wasn't compelling.

Maybe they should have actualy aplied that in the story somewhere then, there are a few missions that mention it but overall its a forgotten topic. And the story in SA was about cleaning up the streets, taking out some corrupt cops, and rising through the ranks. Which though niko is always babeling about he never seems to make it far from the gutter

The leveling up stuff is subjective, but I rather disliked the system. I was happy to see it gone. And what other game play features did SA have? Worse car physics? Stupider cops? Closer loading zones?

The gang stystem from SA alone contains more depth then everything in 4 combined, Taking over certain areas to get your members there, which you could then get to follow you around for backup.
Not to mention the maps were actualy worth exploring, there were different parts to the game, 4 looks almost exactly the same regardless of where you go

As I said before, I do agree that the camera angle in a car needs some work, but I had no troubles, even when racing, controlling the camera to my likings. That is one skill I mastered years ago while playing adventure games.

I'm not just refering to the car, walking/running/driving anything that puts you in motion basicaly sets the camera into uselessness

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and it is perfectly valid for you to enjoy SA more than 4, but to say it is better is just plain wrong. 4 was a big step for the GTA series, and it was a step in the right direction in almost every way.

The only thing 4 has over SA is the GPS system, and better graphics, which honestly arent even that great compared to some other games like COD4 or MGS4

And kaioken I've already told you before not to post in my topics, nothing you say is ever even close to being correct
In response to Falacy (#33)
I'm not going to sit here and argue with you. It's clear you have made up your mind, but I will tell you, I've played every GTA game ever made, start to finish, and GTA4 is the best. Period. I can see why people might like SA more, but that doesn't make it better.

And kaioken I've already told you before not to post in my topics, nothing you say is ever even close to being correct

I don't believe it is your choice who posts in these public forums. If you don't want to hear from Kaioken, I suggest you not frequent the same places as him. As long as he keeps a civil tone, he is welcome here. I suggest dropping undue hostility to other users.
In response to Danial.Beta (#34)
Danial.Beta wrote:
I'm not going to sit here and argue with you. It's clear you have made up your mind, but I will tell you, I've played every GTA game ever made, start to finish, and GTA4 is the best. Period.

I've only played SA full-through, Working on 4. Started on 3, but a few hours in realized it wasnt nearly worth wasting the time to play it through. And I've played VC at a friends once, seemed ok enough

I can see why people might like SA more, but that doesn't make it better.

That doesnt make any sense... but ok

I don't believe it is your choice who posts in these public forums. If you don't want to hear from Kaioken, I suggest you not frequent the same places as him. As long as he keeps a civil tone, he is welcome here. I suggest dropping undue hostility to other users.

Undue? I'm only hostile towards incompetent people who constantly spam up my topics with completely useless, usualy irrelevant and/or incorrect posts
In response to Falacy (#35)
Falacy wrote:
Undue? I'm only hostile towards incompetent people who constantly spam up my topics with completely useless, usualy irrelevant and/or incorrect posts

Almost sounds like you're talking about yourself...

GTA4 is too 1337 for you. Go play GTA2 instead.
In response to Danial.Beta (#29)
Oh,yeah that is annoying when it does that but you get used to it.
In response to Falacy (#4)
You're free to hate a game, that's cool.

I just cant comprehend why you keep playing a game you dislike. If it's a horrendous waste of time, you should take it back and get your $60.

"GTA4 sucks, so I continued to play it"

Heh.
In response to SSJ2GohanDBGT (#38)
SSJ2GohanDBGT wrote:
You're free to hate a game, that's cool.

Well! I figured I spent 60 bux on it I might as well play it, plus I remembered SA sucking horribly at the begining but then getting really good a few hours in so I kept waiting for 4 to do the same... never did though. I finaly beat the game and I have to say that was one of the most uneventfull stories Ive ever seen (aside from maybe 5 or so decent mission points) and probably has the most repetative mission styles (shootout and chase are pretty much it), Ive seen more variety in WoW's quests =P

I just cant comprehend why you keep playing a game you dislike. If it's a horrendous waste of time, you should take it back and get your $60.

You cant return games! Only exchange them for another copy of the same one...

"GTA4 sucks, so I continued to play it"

Eh, Ive already answered this above
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