Locked: Original games using ripped content? in BYOND Discussion

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ID:260928
 
Jan 31 2011, 11:00 am (Edited on Jan 31 2011, 7:06 pm)
I've went through and played a few of the original games on BYOND. Tom's stance is if they contain graphics from a non-original source (example; a Pokemon game) they cannot be listed on the hub.

There are several games that contain graphics that are ripped from other sources (mainly RPG Maker; which IS copyrighted content.)


THE LIST:

http://www.byond.com/games/Aeon_nova/deadandwalking
(Contains several RPG Maker graphics and uses monster icons from Doom and other sources)

http://www.byond.com/games/Enigmaster2002/IconUltima
(Contains tons of icons from other sources, now this normally can slide because they are uploaded by other players, but the base world map does contain RPG Maker graphics.)

http://www.byond.com/games/Falacy/RZG
Contains RPG Maker graphics (trees, grass)

http://www.byond.com/games/DevourerOfSouls/SigroganaLegend
Pretty much everything here is RPG Maker Graphics.

http://www.byond.com/games/Secxs/MysticJourney
Uses tons of RPG Maker graphics, is a rip off of the original Mystic Journey by Gunbuddy.

http://www.byond.com/games/LostRealm/Mafia
Uses characters (and their names) from different sources (anime, tv shows, etc.)

http://www.byond.com/games/Xerse/RiseOfHeroes
Uses a ton of RPG Maker graphics.

http://www.byond.com/games/WildBlood/ScareyGame2
Uses a ton of RPG Maker graphics.

http://www.byond.com/games/Sharp/BuildersFantasy
Includes named references as well as icons of several popular game characters (Cloud)


Under the new rules, are these games allowed on the hub because they use ripped graphics?

[EDIT: Tuned down the "OMG RAGE" a little bit]

[EDIT2: All I am saying here is, if a game uses ripped content from RPG Maker or any other sources, original or fangame, it shouldn't be featured on the hub.

It's becoming a double standard; fangames can't get on the hub because they use ripped content, while original games are allowed to slide through even though they're using ripped graphics?

I understand the reviewers have a lot to go through, but if your going to start sliding things through, it's just going to bring the quality of all of the truly original games on the hub down, when they've worked so hard to get there in the first place by using original stuff.
#1 Jan 31 2011, 11:14 am
Good point. They however don't care.
#2 Jan 31 2011, 12:09 pm
In response to Tetsuya (#1)
Tetsuya wrote:
Good point. They however don't care.

Of course we care. Coming up with a good standard for this stuff and figuring out where to draw the line has been incredibly difficult, and we're still working out the kinks. Don't mistake a few issues during transition for apathy.

Lummox JR
#3 Jan 31 2011, 12:23 pm
In response to Lummox JR (#2)
I personally would love to hear the verdict on this. I honestly dont believe any art or programming from other places should be used in another game, and while alot of these original games are fun, they do often have art that is not only also seen in alot of fangames, but its art that is being used without permission.

As a developer i agree and do not believe games using content they did not make should be featured. The developers of games like Decadence, Regressia, and even Nestalgia worked hard to make thier games use original art, and that should be encouraged. Shortcuts? not so much.
#4 Jan 31 2011, 1:03 pm
In response to Pmitch (#3)
How is this okay though?

http://www.byond.com/games/SuperAntx/tetris

I mean really? Hows that not a fangame? There is nothing original about that.

#5 Jan 31 2011, 1:07 pm
In response to Pmitch (#3)
Pmitch wrote:
As a developer i agree and do not believe games using content they did not make should be featured. The developers of games like Decadence, Regressia, and even Nestalgia worked hard to make thier games use original art, and that should be encouraged. Shortcuts? not so much.

This is exactly how I feel.
#6 Jan 31 2011, 1:11 pm
In response to Flame Sage (#5)
To reiterate, If it comes down to free resources, for example:those made by byonders, for byonders, then i have absolutely no problem with that being featured as long as one has permission from the creator of said art. I had thought i said that in my original post, but it mustve slipped my mind while i was typing.
#7 Jan 31 2011, 1:12 pm
In response to Tetsuya (#4)
Tetsuya wrote:
How is this okay though?

http://www.byond.com/games/SuperAntx/tetris

I mean really? Hows that not a fangame? There is nothing original about that.

If you read toms post about fan games and based on your comment I don't think you did. He said(and I know imma sound like Micheal Cole when i say this[google it]) And I quote:
Tom wrote:
There is some wiggle-room in the fangame definition, and we will review all submissions. For instance, "Texas Hold'em Poker" is not a fangame because there isn't really a claim to the intellectual property (the guy who owned that would be rich though). Games that borrow elements from movies, tv shows, other video games and so-forth may be exempt from fangame status depending on how they use (or mask) such elements.

~Based on that I say antx as all the right in the world to have a featured tetris game. And I don't know if its just me but i consider icon ultima an original game

And im sorry but really? Because a game has a character named cloud its instantly a final fantasy rip? really?
#8 Jan 31 2011, 1:15 pm
In response to Mr.Professional (#7)
Its just like tetris. Named after it and everything. Some games have been marked as a fangame for the exact same reasons.
#9 Jan 31 2011, 1:15 pm
In response to Mr.Professional (#7)
Mr.Professional wrote:
And im sorry but really? Because a game has a character named cloud its instantly a final fantasy rip? really?

If it's asking the user to "Select an icon" and have their name set to Cloud, and the icon of Cloud from FF7, I think it should be considered a rip and set to "fangame", yes.
#10 Jan 31 2011, 1:17 pm
In response to Tetsuya (#8)
We should be focused on the games that I listed, because they DO use stolen property. We can't simply ignore those games because they're original ideas, and then grill fangames because they use ripped content.
#11 Jan 31 2011, 1:18 pm
In response to Flame Sage (#9)
Flame Sage wrote:
Mr.Professional wrote:
And im sorry but really? Because a game has a character named cloud its instantly a final fantasy rip? really?

If it's asking the user to "Select an icon" and have their name set to Cloud, and the icon of Cloud from FF7, I think it should be considered a rip and set to "fangame", yes.

Like I said I don't consider icon ulitma a fan game. In fact, I would say it wedges itself in the middle of the definition of fangame and original. As far the rest of those game I haven't played I usually try to avoid byond RPGs but ill play through for a while to see so I can't really give insight on the rest of them.

#12 Jan 31 2011, 1:20 pm
In response to Mr.Professional (#11)
Mr.Professional wrote:
Flame Sage wrote:
Mr.Professional wrote:
And im sorry but really? Because a game has a character named cloud its instantly a final fantasy rip? really?

If it's asking the user to "Select an icon" and have their name set to Cloud, and the icon of Cloud from FF7, I think it should be considered a rip and set to "fangame", yes.

Like I said I don't consider icon ulitma a fan game. In fact, I would say it wedges itself in the middle of the definition of fangame and original. As far the rest of those game I haven't played I usually try to avoid byond RPGs but ill play through for a while to see so I can't really give insight on the rest of them.

The point is it's still using stolen resources and therefore, shouldn't be listed.
#13 Jan 31 2011, 1:22 pm
In response to Flame Sage (#12)
Flame Sage wrote:
Mr.Professional wrote:
Flame Sage wrote:
Mr.Professional wrote:
And im sorry but really? Because a game has a character named cloud its instantly a final fantasy rip? really?

If it's asking the user to "Select an icon" and have their name set to Cloud, and the icon of Cloud from FF7, I think it should be considered a rip and set to "fangame", yes.

Like I said I don't consider icon ulitma a fan game. In fact, I would say it wedges itself in the middle of the definition of fangame and original. As far the rest of those game I haven't played I usually try to avoid byond RPGs but ill play through for a while to see so I can't really give insight on the rest of them.

The point is it's still using stolen resources and therefore, shouldn't be listed.

Isn't RPG maker free to use? So wouldn't banning RPG be like saying using an icon library is "unoriginal" because i seen these icons on such and such game.
#14 Jan 31 2011, 1:25 pm
In response to Mr.Professional (#13)
RPG Maker graphics ARE NOT FREE TO USE.
I don't understand where everyone gets this from.
They are copyrighted by ASCII / Enterbrain

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG_Maker
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG_Maker#Illegal_distribution
#15 Jan 31 2011, 1:33 pm
In response to Flame Sage (#14)
Flame Sage wrote:
RPG Maker graphics ARE NOT FREE TO USE.
I don't understand where everyone gets this from.
They are copyrighted by ASCII / Enterbrain

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG_Maker#Illegal_distribution

Your links is discussing theft of the software, not the graphics. The RPG Maker runtime package (RTP) is what you need to be concerned with, for which there must be some license because otherwise legit RPG Maker games couldn't use them. That said, finding a copy of this license doesn't seem to be easy, and whether or not those graphics are authorized for use with BYOND is another story.
#16 Jan 31 2011, 1:37 pm
In response to Airjoe (#15)
Airjoe wrote:
Flame Sage wrote:
RPG Maker graphics ARE NOT FREE TO USE.
I don't understand where everyone gets this from.
They are copyrighted by ASCII / Enterbrain

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG_Maker#Illegal_distribution

Your links is discussing theft of the software, not the graphics. The RPG Maker runtime package (RTP) is what you need to be concerned with, for which there must be some license because otherwise legit RPG Maker games couldn't use them. That said, finding a copy of this license doesn't seem to be easy, and whether or not those graphics are authorized for use with BYOND is another story.

http://www.rpgmakervx.net/index.php?showtopic=30631
No, it is not legal. Somewhere in their terms state that the VX RTP graphics are to be used with RPG Maker VX only. This goes as far to mean that you can't use the VX RTP with RPG Maker XP and vice versa.
#17 Jan 31 2011, 1:42 pm
On the surface this looks like a hard question to answer. Examine it more closely, however, and I think that the conclusion is simple: No, those games should not be featured.

The first confusing issue is that RPG Maker tilesets are freely available all over the internet. But to put that in perspective: so the are tilesets for most any game, and that doesn't make them legal to use. So the availability is meaningless.

Second, people mistake RPG Maker tilesets as free to use because they came with a game that was all about building your own RPG. The graphics were intended for that purpose, right?

Actually, no. In reality, those tilesets were only meant to be used and distributed in RPG Maker games. People have no legal right to use them outside RPG Maker, and there has been a steady flow of C&D letters sent to developers who have tried. It's obvious that the rights holders don't want people using their tilesets.


Could BYOND games get away with using RPG Maker graphics? The obvious answer is yes, since they've been doing so for years. Should Featured BYOND games be allowed to use them? No.
#18 Jan 31 2011, 1:43 pm
In response to Flame Sage (#16)
Flame Sage wrote:
http://www.rpgmakervx.net/index.php?showtopic=30631
No, it is not legal. Somewhere in their terms state that the VX RTP graphics are to be used with RPG Maker VX only. This goes as far to mean that you can't use the VX RTP with RPG Maker XP and vice versa.

Forum topics are totally the ultimate citation, dude.

As I said, the license itself is not easily found, and that is the only definitive answer.
#19 Jan 31 2011, 1:46 pm
In response to Airjoe (#18)
Airjoe wrote:
Flame Sage wrote:
http://www.rpgmakervx.net/index.php?showtopic=30631
No, it is not legal. Somewhere in their terms state that the VX RTP graphics are to be used with RPG Maker VX only. This goes as far to mean that you can't use the VX RTP with RPG Maker XP and vice versa.

Forum topics are totally the ultimate citation, dude.

As I said, the license itself is not easily found, and that is the only definitive answer.

I understand it's not proper citation. I'm just saying.


I think original games that use content without permission of the original creator should be marked as "not_original" tag and be hidden from the listings just like fangames because they too, use content without permission of the original creator.
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