ID:119280
 
New Direction

My initial plan was to make a platformer/RPG, but now I'm starting to reduce some of the RPG elements. They didn't add much to the game and they made it a lot harder to work on. The biggest change is how character classes will be used. My initial plan was to have five classes, and each character would have a major and minor class, giving it 20 different class combinations. I wanted each class combination to be distinct.

The problem was designing levels that have interesting challenges that different classes overcome in different ways. It was hard to design a secret area that had a few different ways you could reach it (ex: one way for bandits to reach it, one for wizards, etc.). It ended up being "to get to this area you need to climb walls, which means you need to be a bandit".

To get around this I changed how classes work. Each time you play through the game you pick a class. As you progress, you accumulate all of that class's abilities. You can complete the game without any special abilities (there's no place where you'll need wall-climbing). When you complete the game you can pick another class and play through again. You accumulate that new class's abilities and you keep the skills from the first class. Eventually you'll have all abilities.

There may be secret areas that you need certain abilities to reach (or certain combinations of abilities), but the plan is that you'll play through one time for each class. This lets me design areas that you need wall-climbing and anti-gravity to reach because I know that you'll eventually have played through as a band and wizard so you'd have both abilities.

Conceptually

The motivation for this change is re-use. Platformers tend to re-use areas by giving the player new abilities. For example, you'll play through part of a level then gain the ability to jump higher. Now you can go back to earlier parts of the level and reach tall ledges you couldn't before.

This is fun and I like games that do this because it makes the player have to remember what they've seen. The player has to remember where the tall ledges were so once they get the powerup, they can revisit those areas. The problem is that this becomes frustrating when the player forgets where a tall ledge was. It can also be frustrating when the player doesn't know what abilities they'll be getting.

This avoids that problem in a brute force kind of way. If you play through the game first as a bandit, somewhere along the way you'll learn to climb walls. You don't have to go back and revisit all areas to see what areas wall-climbing can get you to, you just complete the game and play through again as a different class. The game forces you to revisit these areas by letting you play through a second time.

The problem with searching for new areas you can reach is that, if you don't find any new areas, you end up going through everywhere three times. The first trip is the initial play through. The second is when you go back to look for new areas. The third is after you don't find the new areas and you go back to where you got the powerup. By playing through the game again from the start, you'll only visit areas twice. Also, it's intentional that you're visiting the areas twice.

Progress

With this new direction it's been a lot easier to work on the game. I was hoping to have something playable at this time and I don't, but it is getting closer.

The new way of using classes also means that the basic game itself can be much shorter, maybe just three dungeons. But, when you play through the game the second time you'll have more abilities than you had the first time and you'll be able to reach more dungeons.

It also means that I can get away with less abilities for each class. If you only had a major and minor class and I wanted characters to have 10 abilities, each class would need 6 or 7 skills (you wouldn't have inherited all abilities from your minor class). Now, if I want the player to have 10 total abilities each class only needs to have 2. There will be more than that, but there doesn't have to be.

The first playable release will contain three dungeons. Dungeons are zones with boss fights. There are areas in between the dungeons, but they don't have bosses. It'll also contain all five classes, each with 2-4 unique abilities. Currently the game has one dungeon (that's almost complete) and most of the abilities are done. Creating the other two dungeons won't be too bad. The hardest part will probably be all of the little details (title screen, menus, saving/loading, graphics, etc.)

Obligatory Screenshots

Wizards can freeze some enemies:


In the character selection screen you walk around as a spirit. There are NPCs representing each class. You use the portal next to the NPC to select that class.




Sidescroller

I'll probably have an update ready in the next week. It's mostly just minor changes. The biggest change will be the addition of a new demo. The new demo will be something like the existing game-demo - a somewhat complete game that people can more easily expand upon.
Woah this looks amazing.
A little long read, but from what I gather, is it possible to skim through the game with every class, to get every skill, then with every class you can slowly take your time and search every nook and cranny of the game? I love to get all of the secrets of a game (though I have no idea what secret areas give), but to be honest, I'm not that interested to play through the whole game with every class, just so that I'll be able to enter every section of the game.
You're basically correct.

The "core" of the game (the part you have to complete before you get all the skills and can select another class) will be very short. If I had to guess, I'd say that the first time through will take 30 minutes. Each additional time will be faster.

What's different from your assessment is that you won't necessarily play through all five times, then start looking for new areas you can access (you could do it that way, but you don't have to). You'll play through once and get some abilities. Then you'll play through again and find some new areas you can access. Then you'll play through a third time and find even more new areas you can access.

The new areas you can access aren't just going to be little nooks and crannies with items you need to get 100% completion. It could be that after playing through as a bandit you can now climb walls. This lets you climb a volcano, jump in, and play through a new dungeon (with bosses and everything) inside the volcano.
Oh alright, so it's like a new adventure with these new areas found, well that idea I like. Though, if there's some kind of treasure in these secret areas, would I have to re-enter it once I've finished the game, to re-acquire the treasure?
Oh alright, so it's like a new adventure with these new areas found

Exactly. When you play through the game again it'll seem different because the world will suddenly seem bigger. The first time you played through you didn't realize it was small. I'm hoping it'll be as interesting as I think it is =)

I don't know exactly how "treasure" will work. There'll probably be hidden items for you to collect but they'd probably be specific to your character or your BYOND account (ex: you'd get a medal for each hidden item so you only need to get it once under your BYOND key). If it's not key-specific, it'll be character specific at least so you wouldn't have to get each item again each time through the game.
Bah, I hadn't read most of your previous blog posts about Tiny Heroes, and I wasn't as interested in it's reveal as some people were, but you've forced me to become a fan. Looking forward to it.
Glad to hear it!
Just wondering,are you planning on adding a PvP to the game? I think i remember reading something about that in one of your previous posts,and i think this new system would kinda unbalance the PvP system.
I don't have any PvP planned. I'm not ruling it out, I just don't have anything specific planned.

I see what you're saying, but I wouldn't say it'd make it unbalanced. It'd make things too balanced since everyone would end up having the exact same set of skills. I can imagine how this could end up being boring.

1. I've always had the idea that PvP wouldn't be "direct". It wouldn't be like Diablo 2 or Street Fighter where it's just you and another player attacking each other. It'd be like battlegrounds in WoW - you'd be competing against other players in a minigame (ex: capture the flag) and while you will be able to use attacks against other players, that'll only be part of the game.

2. You can only have 6 skills bound to hotkeys. You can change them whenever you want to, but if you're busy playing the game you probably won't bother. You'll probably just pick six skills you like and use them for the whole round. So, even if everyone has access to all of the same abilities, they probably won't have the same six selected.
Everything looks neat. For the quest pop ups(the word balloons), did you use Javascript?
Magnum2k wrote:
Everything looks neat. For the quest pop ups(the word balloons), did you use Javascript?

No, they're just objs placed directly on the map.
I did google "tiny heroes" a while ago to see if the name was taken and, at that time, it wasn't. I eventually saw the game you linked to, but I'm not sure if I'd bother changing names. I also couldn't think of any other names.

Good thing I didn't work on this game the way most BYONDers do and make the title screen first =)
Forum_account wrote:
I don't have any PvP planned. I'm not ruling it out, I just don't have anything specific planned.

Oh,well are you planning to add extra content? I know players are going to stop playing once they have achieved the maximum amount of skills they can obtain,or when they have reached most parts of the map.

I see what you're saying, but I wouldn't say it'd make it unbalanced. It'd make things too balanced since everyone would end up having the exact same set of skills.

It could go both ways,a person with more experience in the game can easily overpower a person who has less experience,due to the fact that he/she could have all the skills the other player utilizes,plus extra skills that he/she has obtained during the game.

1.- you'd be competing against other players in a minigame (ex: capture the flag) and while you will be able to use attacks against other players, that'll only be part of the game.

Sounds fun.

2.So, even if everyone has access to all of the same abilities, they probably won't have the same six selected.

True,but don't you think that the type of minigame that you have selected will effect what skills people would use? If so,then that will just lead people into choosing a few similar skills.

Not trying to be a drag,just pointing my thoughts out.