In response to Crispy (#18)
Crispy wrote:
Gads. That's the second most badly designed page I've ever seen!

Wacky, ain't it? But you say the second most badly designed... tell me more!
In response to Gughunter (#20)
Gughunter wrote:
Wacky, ain't it? But you say the second most badly designed... tell me more!

Sounds like a Maxwell Smartism.
In response to Jerico2day (#11)
Jerico2day wrote:
i hate it when people say its all about the oil... thats a rediculous statement... Why didn't we get the oil last time we were there?!

Because the new pipeline that runs through parts of Iraq was not there last time... It is pretty common knowledge in Europe (even Blair hinted to it during a speech), that securing that pipeline is of key importance to oil production in the region - and if the US gets control of it, you can bet your sweet cherries that gas prices will go down again...
They may not actually own the oil at that point, but they will be the ones who 'liberate it' for the 'free world'...
In response to digitalmouse (#22)
Because the new pipeline that runs through parts of Iraq was not there last time... It is pretty common knowledge in Europe (even Blair hinted to it during a speech), that securing that pipeline is of key importance to oil production in the region - and if the US gets control of it, you can bet your sweet cherries that gas prices will go down again...
They may not actually own the oil at that point, but they will be the ones who 'liberate it' for the 'free world'...

For those that are curious, gas prices are currently plummetting because the Iraqis torched some of their wells. Upon getting wind of this, many people sold their oil stocks, afraid there'd be a market crash.

Don't be fooled by the current low. In a few weeks, the prices will rise even higher than they were before, as oil becomes a little more difficult to trade as a world commodity (anyone hear of the oil tanker that got arrested on the East Coast of the 'States because the captain and commander were Iraqi? Complete and utter racism if you ask me). The prices won't start returning to normal until the war is finished and the humanitarian aid mission is done.
In response to Spuzzum (#23)
For those that are curious, gas prices are currently plummetting because the Iraqis torched some of their wells. Upon getting wind of this, many people sold their oil stocks, afraid there'd be a market crash.

I'm not sure I understand the correlation here. Wouldn't reducing the oil supply make oil more valuable?
In response to Gughunter (#24)
I'm not sure I understand the correlation here. Wouldn't reducing the oil supply make oil more valuable?

Yup, it will once the demand catches up to the supply. Stock prices are plummetting because everyone is selling their stocks. That makes oil cheap, which makes gas cheap.
In response to Geminidomino (#19)
Unprovoked? Exscuse me, but I think that attacking someone who is funding terrorist organizations against us is a good enough reason, not to forget that we gave them about 10 years to disarm themselves, which they still have not done. Look at the facts and history before you try to say things that you aren't sure about. Oh, and your also forgetting that nukes have been banned by the UN, and in the case of using them, those countries will then be turned on and attacked. I seriously doubt any of those countries want to take that chance, even if it's China and North Korea(Some of the most well trained military forces on Earth.) Also the probability of a nuke effectively reaching our country from that far is not very likely, the only reason it was useable in World War 2 was because nobody was truely aware of it.



<<>>Kusanagi<<>>
In response to Kusanagi (#26)
Kusanagi wrote:
Unprovoked? Exscuse me, but I think that attacking someone who is funding terrorist organizations against us is a good enough reason, not to forget that we gave them about 10 years to disarm themselves, which they still have not done. Look at the facts and history before you try to say things that you aren't sure about. Oh, and your also forgetting that nukes have been banned by the UN, and in the case of using them, those countries will then be turned on and attacked. I seriously doubt any of those countries want to take that chance, even if it's China and North Korea(Some of the most well trained military forces on Earth.) Also the probability of a nuke effectively reaching our country from that far is not very likely, the only reason it was useable in World War 2 was because nobody was truely aware of it.

YOU might think that the accusation of terrorist support is enough, SHRUB might think its enough. But to the rest of the world, WE are the aggressors. Kuwait provoked Iraqs attack by slant-drilling into Iraq's oil. Either way my analogy holds. The US is rapidly losing credibility among the other nations of the world.

Again, wrt nukes: Iraq has nukes, so we should blow them away. Guess what. WE have nukes too. Even though they are banned by the UN. I haven't forgotten, that fact is just irrelevant. Obviously, the US doesn't listen to the UN so why should anyone else?

How are you so sure N. Korea won't use nukes? They've already withdrawn from the non-proliferation (anti-nuke) treaty. Whats-his-name in charge over there makes Sadaam(who is admittedly scum) look like Santa Claus.

By what logic do you think we could not get hit by a nuke from China if we could hit AND be hit BY nukes from RUSSIA *30 YEARS AGO*
In response to Geminidomino (#27)
I think you only look at about 4 words in my paragraph, and then respond.... Iraq was ordered by the UN to disarm their forbidden weaponry, not the U.S., not North Korea, not China, which means we can have nukes, but not Iraq. The reason why Iraq has been being inspected and what not is because they were making the Nuclear weapons in a fashion as if they were going to start a war, while most other countries produce them as a defensive weapon or a test weapon. Even if Nukes are banned, they will most likely be used as a last chance weapon when losing a war. I also don't know why you bring North Korea and China into this, they are a totally different discussion. Oh, and I am pretty mutch assured that 30 years ago radar systems were not as powerful as they are now, and anti-missile and anti enemy aircraft bases were not as plentiful as they are now.

In the situation that we are attacked by a mass of warheads, and they are not aircraft situated, then they wont have enough fuel to reach the states, if they are supported by aircraft, then we will shoot them down immediately. If the warheads have enough fuel, then we will shoot them down just as well... and that will leave those countries open to attack from the rest of the world. I guess this must be new to you, as you seem persistent on thinking we will meet a dire nuclear winter, but oh well, I'm not your teacher, and I don't feel I have any more buisness going head to head with ignorance.


<<>>Kusanagi<<>>
In response to Kusanagi (#28)
You said "Nukes were banned by the UN" not "Nukes were banned from IRaq by the UN." The difference in context is significant.

Take a google for "Anti-proliferation treaty" and find out what that's all about. You're spewing the typical party line about Iraq being a threat and needing to be attacked. I got news for you, N. Korea and China *have* nukes, and they ain't too fond of the US right now. They could be a real threat if so inclined.

As far as not having enough fuel to reach us, that's silly. It's called an ICBM (inter-continental ballistic missile). They can send things into space, you don't think they can send a nuke over an ocean?

Here's a question for you... Once the warhead has been armed, what happens to it when the missile is shot down over San Francisco or Seattle? This isn't challenging your points, but I always wondered. If the warhead is armed, what happens if it is destroyed? Or even worse, what if it is left intact and falls in the middle of a city.


In response to Geminidomino (#29)
The theory is that the warhead is simply destroyed... the worst side effect is that the nuclear material gets spread around. After all, it takes a precise chain reaction to set off a nuclear explosion, and if a missile is shot down or blown up, it's hard to imagine that doesn't do enough damage to the arming/triggering mechanism to prevent it from "going off".

Of course, we probably won't know for sure until an actual armed warhead is shot down.
In response to Kusanagi (#26)
Funding terrorist organizations. I would like to point out that just about every country on the planet in one way or another funds terrorists organizations, directly or indirectly, intentionally or not. The argument coming from the White House that Saddam Hussein is a threat to American security sounds like the good old propaganda machine at work again, the Very powerful institution that it is.

The difference...people in America are, to a large extent, believing their own bull[stuff]. Many people outside of America, however, do not, and rightfully so. This is why this war has seen so much protest. The history of the U.S. foreign policy is absolutely appalling. Internationally, people have stopped trusting the government of the United States. It's that simple.

-Dagolar
In response to Dagolar (#31)
Dagolar wrote:
Funding terrorist organizations. I would like to point out that just about every country on the planet in one way or another funds terrorists organizations, directly or indirectly, intentionally or not. The argument coming from the White House that Saddam Hussein is a threat to American security sounds like the good old propaganda machine at work again, the Very powerful institution that it is.

The difference...people in America are, to a large extent, believing their own bull[stuff]. Many people outside of America, however, do not, and rightfully so. This is why this war has seen so much protest. The history of the U.S. foreign policy is absolutely appalling. Internationally, people have stopped trusting the government of the United States. It's that simple.

-Dagolar

Here, Here! Well put! Now I'm just as 'loyal' an American as the next hick (I was born in Texas, and grew up in Georgia), but the American government is doing a fine job of pulling the wool over the American peoples eyes on many issues - only CNN (that I know of, because that is all I get here in Germany) has been doing a good job of covering multiple aspects of this conflict. I particularly like the reporting on how political cartoonists are doing a good job on showing Bush-baby in a clear (yet humorous) light.

Maybe someday the American population in general will wake up to the fact that they are just as blind-sided by their government as Iraq is to their own...
In response to Dagolar (#31)
If you're gonna debate about something at least keep the language clean.
In response to Dagolar (#31)
Dagolar wrote:

Internationally, people have stopped trusting the government of the United States. It's that simple.


Eh, there's a good amount of that *IN* the US as well.
In response to Nadrew (#33)
Gee, if that had been me, it would have been a 1-3 day ban!
In response to Sariat (#35)
Only because it wouldn't have been a first offence. As far as I know, Dagolar has a fairly clean record. =)
In response to Crispy (#36)
And Nadrew doesn't have stuff on him and he doesn't have stuff on Nadrew.
In response to digitalmouse (#32)
There already seem to be a lot of American citizens who are awake and aware, and I believe this number will increase as time marches on. I think it will be the American people who will make things right. It's not going to be the U.N., it's not going to be any international body. It's going to be the American people. They have the power, and are on their way to using it. And the whole world will support them.

-Dagolar
In response to Dagolar (#38)
There already seem to be a lot of American citizens who are awake and aware, and I believe this number will increase as time marches on. I think it will be the American people who will make things right. It's not going to be the U.N., it's not going to be any international body. It's going to be the American people. They have the power, and are on their way to using it.

I sure hope so! Looks like we don't think so differently after all.


And the whole world will support them.

Oooh, I'm not so optimistic about that one. But hopefully at least the more reputable liberal democracies will continue to support us.
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