Applications/Utilities in BYOND Discussion

ID:132776
 
Nov 2 2009, 8:36 am
I was wondering if a major addition could be made, I don't know how difficult it would be to add to the site as that depends on how well the site is set up.

So, what I am asking for is a new development area such as Libraries and Demo's, this being called Applications/Utilities - Over here you upload utilities which do useful things, for example, a calculator, a text editor, a finance manager, a graphics editor, a password manager, etc.

This could help bring a different variety of developers to BYOND other than just game developers. As for myself, I have lost interest in developing games like a lot of other people and I quite like developing/creating applications and utilities which can benefit me and others.

I may not be explaining this that well but I hope you get the picture.

So, what do you think?

Haywire
#1 Nov 2 2009, 9:35 am
This has been suggested before, I think. In fact, I thought we did have such a section at one time.

Byond is not really suited for this though. Byond is specifically for making games. You can make other things with it, but it doesn't really make sense to do so. And even if you do, your Byond utility is likely not preferable to whatever else is available.

Byond utilities of this nature are more of a novelty.
#2 Nov 2 2009, 9:52 am
In response to Loduwijk (#1)
Byond is not really suited for this though.

Perhaps, but it's an easy language to adapt to in comparison to C/C#/C++/Java/Python (although Python is pretty easy to learn too) so a lot more people would be willing to give this try without failing, which they would probably do on their first attempts of learning the aforementioned languages.

DM also makes it incredibly easy to create Graphical User Interfaces (GUI). All the benefits that apply for games to developed on BYOND rather than with C/C#/C++/Java can be used for this, those languages can become quite complicated to work with, DM is a pretty easy environment to work with.

And most of all, it may even increase the community population...

Some people are just not into gaming as much as others...
#3 Nov 2 2009, 10:08 am
In response to Haywire (#2)
Haywire wrote:
DM also makes it incredibly easy to create Graphical User Interfaces (GUI). All the benefits that apply for games to developed on BYOND rather than with C/C#/C++/Java can be used for this, those languages can become quite complicated to work with, DM is a pretty easy environment to work with.

Have you ever used C#, Java, or Visual Basic? If you think DM makes interfaces easy, check out some of the languages you're trashing.
#4 Nov 2 2009, 10:21 am
In response to Airjoe (#3)
Airjoe wrote:
Haywire wrote:
DM also makes it incredibly easy to create Graphical User Interfaces (GUI). All the benefits that apply for games to developed on BYOND rather than with C/C#/C++/Java can be used for this, those languages can become quite complicated to work with, DM is a pretty easy environment to work with.

Have you ever used C#, Java, or Visual Basic? If you think DM makes interfaces easy, check out some of the languages you're trashing.

I've worked with C++ and Visual Basic 6.

I didn't comment about VB6 because I understand that it's also an easy environment to work in.

C++ however can become difficult, but it depends on what API I chose to use, even with something as easy as wxWidgets, it requires some setting up (Compiling, Linking) with your IDE and Compiler, which can become quite troublesome.

Also, I wasn't trying to trash them, I was just trying to point out the benefits of this feature, which seems to be a reasonable thing to do if I want this feature to be implemented.
#5 Nov 2 2009, 10:22 am
In response to Haywire (#4)
Back in the day we had a Utilities section on the hub. It wasn't brought over to newer systems because it simply didn't have enough content to be considered worthwhile. Just about everything that fit into the section was fine to sit in other sections like libraries or demos.
#6 Nov 2 2009, 10:30 am
In response to Haywire (#2)
Haywire wrote:
Perhaps, but it's an easy language to adapt to in comparison to C/C#/C++/Java/Python

Agreed. Byond is in the order of complexity of VB.

so a lot more people would be willing to give this try without failing, which they would probably do on their first attempts of learning the aforementioned languages.

If you're talking about this from the developer's point of view in a learning process, that is true. But then, utilities that people make in the learning process probably are not going to be as useful no matter what the language. As a general rule anyway.

DM also makes it incredibly easy to create Graphical User Interfaces (GUI). All the benefits that apply for games to developed on BYOND rather than with C/C#/C++/Java can be used for this, those languages can become quite complicated to work with, DM is a pretty easy environment to work with.

I would disagree there. Java is very simple to create a GUI with, and I wouldn't say that it's more difficult than Byond. Especially if you're talking about the new(ish) skin features. I still have not bothered to try them out. From what I have seen of if though, it doesn't look too bad, but still I wouldn't say easier than Java.

If you really want ease of GUI creation, VB is definitely the way to go.

Af for making a GUI in Java...
// next three lines are for including the libraries needed
import javax.swing.*;
import java.awt.event.*;
import static java.awt.BorderLayout.*;

public class AdditionCalculator extends JFrame implements ActionListener
{
    JTextField operand1, operand2;
    JLabel showAnswerHere;
    JButton equals;

    AdditionCalculator()
    {
        // this is a JFrame (that is, a window)
        // create it with title "Addition Calculator"
        super("Addition Calculator");

        operand1 = new JTextField(5);
        operand2 = new JTextField(5);
        showAnswerhere = new JLabel("");
        equals = new JButton("Equals");

        add(operand1, LINE_START);
        add(operand2, CENTER);
        add(showAnswerHere, LINE_END);
        add(equals, PAGE_END);

        // calculator implements ActionListener
        // we want to listen for button clicks on "equals" button
        equals.addActionListener(this);

        // set up window and show it
        pack();
        setVisible(true);
    }

    // this is called when the action listener "hears" an event
    // we only registered it with the equals button, so this only happens when you click it
    public void actionPerformed(ActionEvent ae)
    {
        int number1 = Integer.parseInt(operand1.getText()),
            number2 = Integer.parseInt(operand2.getText());
        showAnswerHere.setText("" + (number1+number2));
    }
}

That creates a GUI addition calculator. All you have to do is create an instance of that object with "new AdditionCalculator();" You could even add a main() function to that class itself so that it can run itself. Just
public static void main(String[] args)
{
new AdditionCalculator();
}

As you can see, all it has to do is create the controls it needs (create a new label, two text fields and a button), listen for clicks on the button, and set the label's caption when needed.

If you were going to do that programmatically in Byond, I don't think it would look any better than that.

And most of all, it may even increase the community population...

Some people are just not into gaming as much as others...

But that's precisely what Byond is for. If you're not as much into gaming, then Byond can work for you, but it's not the proper tool for your job, though it is much better suited to such things now than it used to be.

In the end, I'm not trying to discourage you from doing what you want to do. I just think that, as easy as Byond is to use, the things that Byond wasn't made for are still easier in other languages.
#7 Nov 2 2009, 11:02 am
In response to Loduwijk (#6)
Better yet, NetBeans UI designer, Glade et al.
#8 Nov 2 2009, 12:12 pm
In response to Nadrew (#5)
So I'm guessing this won't be added?
#9 Nov 2 2009, 1:52 pm
In response to Haywire (#2)
Haywire wrote:
DM also makes it incredibly easy to create Graphical User Interfaces (GUI). All the benefits that apply for games to developed on BYOND rather than with C/C#/C++/Java can be used for this, those languages can become quite complicated to work with, DM is a pretty easy environment to work with.

If you program with Apple's Mac/iPhone SDK and Objective-C, it's easier to make a GUI than in BYOND, in my opinion at least. It's more complicated to figure out in the beginning, but it becomes extremely simple and powerful when you know what you're doing (well, it's simple until you add really advanced interfaces with auto rotation).