Leathercraft v. Threadcraft; A Poll in Off Topic

ID:36449
 
Nov 7 2007, 12:30 pm

Poll: Should the Threadcraft skill include leatherworking?

Yes 71% (5)
No 28% (2)

Login to vote.

After messing around a bit, I am left wondering if there is any reason why leathercraft and threadcraft should be separate skills. It seems to me that for game purposes, leathercraft would be subsumed by threadcraft. There are already some logical jumps (IE that the same skill used for making a leather jacket is also used for making boots), but this doesn't seem to far fetched (a primitive leatherworker would probably be able to do both). Does it stretch credulity too far to mix clothwork in there? My concern is that separating makes players split hairs in skill allocation for no good reason. OTOH there is something to be said for tailoring and leatherworking being separate crafts. Comments addressing balance issues, immersion, and fun are appreciated.
#1 Nov 7 2007, 12:56 pm
I'd say seperate them, since leathers in games are normally designed as some sort of protection, therefore leatherworking would involve some concept of armour design. You could have basic leather clothing under threadcraft, but anything designed to provide protection as leatherwork.
I expect that leatherwork involves a bit more than just a needle and thread. I expect that the leather needs softening, shaping for things like boots etc.
#2 Nov 7 2007, 2:37 pm
There is actually an armorcraft skill that is used in making armors (it combines with metalcraft, leathercraft, etc. where appropriate).

A very good point about leather- it does require additional working for flexibility. But does that necessitate another skill, or simply mean leather goods are are a higher difficulty to craft?
#3 Nov 7 2007, 3:49 pm
Personally I'd avoid using a system which breaks it down to 'leathercraft' and 'threadcraft' to begin with, but its probably too late for you to do that.

If you think about it, how many different elements are there to those two skills? I'd say there's more to it than being able to sew stuff together. Just because I can sew a button back onto my shirt doesn't mean I can sew together a piece of clothing, or make a leather boot. And even if I could make really nice leather boots, does that automatically mean that I'd know how to make a saddle, or a dress?

Personally I'd be more inclined to say that everything the player can make (or maybe just some major categories) should have its own skill. The more you make boots, the better you'll be at making boots and working with leather. The more you tan leather, the better you'll be at tanning leather. The more you sew dresses, the better you'll be at making dresses and sewing things in general. So maybe each item you make could be a combination of skills:

Boots = footwear + leatherworking
Dress = clothing + sewing
Saddle = saddles + leatherworking

Something like that. Of course, that might be more depth than you really want to create, but I don't think its that hard to give each potential item a craft category and have each player keep track of their skill level for that category. But in the end it would keep one player with excessive amounts of skill in 'leathercraft' from dominating the entire leather market, since the guy who only makes boots will always make the best boots, even if they stink at making saddles.
#4 Nov 7 2007, 3:56 pm
I voted no. My reasoning is that sewing in cloth is considerably different than sewing in leather. With cloth, you string a thread through a needle and go to town. With leather, it is too tough to allow direct piercing; you have to penetrate it with an awl first, then run a dull needle through the hole in order to drag the leather binding through.

Leatherworking has more in common with sewing than weaving yarn, but much less in common with sewing than people think. If sewing is micro, leatherworking is macro. That's the best way I can put it, anyway.

Is it your intention to have dedicated clothiers and tanners/leatherworkers in your game? If semi-faithful reproduction of real low-fantasy medieval society is your aim, the two professions were very different (not to mention the fact that most people would probably pass over a silk shirt if it was made in a tannery... I don't know if you've been to a tannery before, but manure rotting in water is a particularly unpleasant smell).
#5 Nov 7 2007, 4:50 pm
I really like Foomer's idea. That'd really make the market place interesting. A tailor would have to decide whether they want to be really, really good at making dresses and hats or pretty good at making everything.
#6 Nov 8 2007, 7:16 am
Hrm, Foomer if I get what you're saying it is basically a material craft skill + a item category skill. Interesting. I had a similar idea of specializations that was basically the same concept. Leatherworking might have specializations in footwear, handwear, headwear, etc. But specializations are not inherent to that skill (IE a character skilled in handwear can make more complex cloth items as well- though this would also vary with its threadcraft skill)
#7 Nov 8 2007, 8:15 am
Being logical, Threadcraft and Leathercraft are different skills. However, I think separating those skills can cause much confusion in cases where a player doesn't know which category a garment belongs to. Personally, I voted yes since I think simplicity should come before logic in game design.