False advertisement. in BYOND Discussion

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#160 Nov 1 2010, 12:03 pm
In response to Falacy (#28)
Falacy,

You forget that everyone hates paying for anything. And I imagine that BYOND is a great starting place for most developers - I can see why this would be a great beginning base, but I'm also impressed by the capabilities this engine does have for even more experienced programmers.

Honestly, I know I'd lose a lot of respect for BYOND and I'm sure so would plenty others. Why should you have to pay to help people out? You should have to pay to post or update your own library to help others, honestly? As well, making people pay for the developer tools - like I stated before, this community is a great place for beginners and experienced programmers alike. I came here to learn more, as I try to venture into C++. I see amazing similarities, and honestly enjoy this community. But if I came here with the expectation that to even really do anything, I have to pay? I'd probably never have considered the site at all.

Now, considering BYOND is in fact a business however and Tom does have to keep it running, there are a few things that should be kept in mind - it does need to generate revenue, but priorities regarding what is free and what is not should be stated. I like the idea of having games that aren't developed by members being given a hub, but not being given a spot in the search system. This way the game can still circulate without screwing up the search results for everyone.
#161 Nov 1 2010, 12:30 pm
In response to Flame Sage (#82)
I highly agree with Flame Sage's mockup. This looks as if it were actually an older screenshot - those games look a bit older and 300 players seems unlikely nowadays, but I do like the simplicity of this design. I suppose it looks a bit boring so you might want to implement a more colorful approach, but obviously that is a draft and Flame Sage has told us it was just in Paint. But this idea tells me, here you go - here are our games. Obviously a "Want to build your own net dream?" button should be included (or some text similar, as that is what the acronym is there for), but when it comes to it BYOND is intended for online gaming.

As well,
Tom said,
"... the need to install software (at least until the Flash client works"

Flash implementation? This sounds fantastic on numerous levels, but I have two big questions...

1) Would the dm language change significantly for this?
2) If they were browser-based flash games, then would the games be able to be posted on individual sites?

I ask this because not only would it promote developer's websites, but I imagine it would cut a lot of the unnecessary hubs - hey, we made a game you can play it "here" (on BYOND's website) or "here", a link to the developer's website (which could also be their member page I suppose).
#162 Nov 1 2010, 2:54 pm
In response to Kumorii (#158)
Kumorii wrote:
As far as HUBs go, why not try setting it up so that only member HUBs show up be default, but add a new search option that shows non-member HUBs too? I'm not sure if there would be any major issue with this, but it would give the game listings cleaner results, and add another reason to purchase a membership.

It isn't possible to do a mass wipe of all the HUBs, is it? I'm asking because there does end up being a renovation on everything, it would be nice to clean up all the old HUBs.

I think there should be an automatic cleanup system for hubs.

If it's not a tutorial/library/demo, has no valid download link and has been inactive for a year or longer, it should be deleted.

If it's a tutorial/library/demo, has no valid download link and has been inactive for a year or longer, it should be deleted.

This is of course just an idea, it doesn't mean it works.

On the note of tutorials/libraries/demos, it could help to be able to set and search those hubs by BYOND version.
#163 Nov 1 2010, 3:05 pm
In response to Stevenw9 (#162)
-OR-

A system of organization could be introduced. Hell, I'll manually go through the whole thing and sort them if they'll let me.
#164 Nov 1 2010, 3:15 pm
In response to Kumorii (#158)
Kumorii wrote:
It isn't possible to do a mass wipe of all the HUBs, is it? I'm asking because there does end up being a renovation on everything, it would be nice to clean up all the old HUBs.

Doing a complete wipe of all hub entries would be horrible. Some of the best games on BYOND would be gone because the authors are no longer active. Not to mention, the tedious task of remaking my own hubs.

If you are going to go the route of supplying hubs to those who are members, why not simply disable access to hubs of non members? Then supply the title of "legendary hub" to those games of authors who are no longer around.1

1 These games must be above average of course.
#165 Nov 1 2010, 3:19 pm
In response to Calus CoRPS (#164)
Calus CoRPS wrote:
If you are going to go the route of supplying hubs to those who are members, why not simply disable access to hubs of non members? Then supply the title of "legendary hub" to those games of authors who are no longer around.1

1 These games must be above average of course.

Shouldn't future games be allowed this same priviledge as well then? Similar to a Hall of Fame, so to speak?
#166 Nov 1 2010, 3:29 pm
In response to CauTi0N (#165)
CauTi0N wrote:
Shouldn't future games be allowed this same priviledge as well then? Similar to a Hall of Fame, so to speak?

Actually, applying "legendary" status to certain hubs brings up a gray area. Should only older games, which have received notoriety, be given the legendary status? Or should any game that has proven to be quality, such as NEStalgia, also be granted such a similar status?

I suppose the latter could work well. If you were a member at one point during your BYOND career and created a polished game, but eventually left, why should we punish the players by removing the hub?1

1 Question: once you create a hub, will that hub remain visible even if I decide to not renew my membership a year later?
#167 Nov 1 2010, 4:10 pm
In response to Tiberath (#152)
Tiberath wrote:
Xioden wrote:
They'll stick with the ways they can reach a large audience, Flash, XNA, etc. Or they'll go all out and do a "proper" (for lack of better word) program using some C/Java/etc. Language.

You haven't heard of the features currently in development? [link] where Tom clearly states: "at least until the Flash client works"

Which means any program created in BYOND, that has a dedicated host, will be playable via flash embedding inside websites. There fore, that very same audience we will soon be able to reach.

Like it or not, BYOND needs money. And one of the largest money drains on BYOND is the server hosting the BYOND Hub. If the hub isn't limited in anyway, it'll continue to cost more money than it brings in.

And until the flash client is released and working, that doesn't mean anything.

So yes, while BYOND needs money, taking things away and expecting more money to come in is just foolish.

BYOND needs to see major growth as well to actually get an audience for the flash client. Why the hell pay $18 for a membership so I can create a hub for my BYOND flash client game, when I can go list it for free on Kongregate, addicting games, miniclip, etc. and reach a much larger audience?

So as it stands, the flash client would do more harm than good.
#168 Nov 1 2010, 4:32 pm
In response to Calus CoRPS (#166)
Calus CoRPS wrote:
1 Question: once you create a hub, will that hub remain visible even if I decide to not renew my membership a year later?

Yes, under my proposal all hubs are visible. The restriction is that only members can submit their games for listing. Once a game is listed, it stays.
#169 Nov 1 2010, 4:33 pm
In response to Xioden (#167)
I disagree with the idea that it would do more harm - it would improve an already good system on a developer end. The harm would be distributing this use properly.

The other issue that could possibly come to mind is a billion zeta games sprouting up on the internet. -_-
#170 Nov 1 2010, 4:36 pm
In response to Tom (#168)
Would members be allowed to submit any game? (And have a loss of privileges if abused)
#171 Nov 2 2010, 8:18 am
In response to Sinfall (#170)
Tom, please just give us updates on the current status of things, we hate it when you're silent.
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