ID:133392
 
I would like it if in the next reference the DM Reference was updated. It doesn't help having to look at old outdated references which are not only sloppy practices, but ineffective as it is now.
Hm? The DM Reference is properly up-to-date, or mostly anyway. Maybe you're speaking of the DM Guide? Which is really more specifically a once-written guide thing, not the official current documentation of the language, so it's not such a blow that it's not up to date (the guide). Most importantly it teaches the basics of working and managing DM code, indentation, verbs, procs, vars etc - those haven't changed, and are important to know. Then you've always got the DM Reference for up-to-date and usage info on specific procs and operators, or even things like garbage collection and vars declaration.

So if you're speaking of the DM Guide, it's known to be old and in need of update, which would be nice, yeah, but probably the BYOND Staff themselves don't have the leisure to do it on their own (after all their time is taken working on actually programming BYOND). If you did mean the DM Reference, where exactly is it not up-to-date? That would warrant an "immediate" update if a given entry really is not up-to-date and wrong or something.
In response to Kaioken (#1)
Kaioken wrote:
Hm? The DM Reference is properly up-to-date, or mostly anyway. Maybe you're speaking of the DM Guide? Which is really more specifically a once-written guide thing, not the official current documentation of the language, so it's not such a blow that it's not up to date (the guide). Most importantly it teaches the basics of working and managing DM code, indentation, verbs, procs, vars etc - those haven't changed, and are important to know. Then you've always got the DM Reference for up-to-date and usage info on specific procs and operators, or even things like garbage collection and vars declaration.

So if you're speaking of the DM Guide, it's known to be old and in need of update, which would be nice, yeah, but probably the BYOND Staff themselves don't have the leisure to do it on their own (after all their time is taken working on actually programming BYOND). If you did mean the DM Reference, where exactly is it not up-to-date? That would warrant an "immediate" update if a given entry really is not up-to-date and wrong or something.


I'm talking about the stuff you get when you press F1 when coding. I -really- could use an updated one, as there's a lot of procs and stuff that seem to have been updated since , and quite frankly I am not looking forwards to scanning the whole dream maker guild for something that SHOULD be available to us in an updated form :S.
In response to Latoma (#2)
The F1 reference matches the online reference exactly. Could you be more specific on things you think aren't properly up to date?
In response to Latoma (#2)
Yeah, be more specific. The DM Reference is up to date and is updated when a new feature is added to a proc (often not immediately, but rather soon after), etc.
I don't know about being up to date, but I do recall there were some questionable code snippets in some of the entries. I honestly can't remember which ones exactly, but it gave me an idea I'd like to tack onto this request:

Sometime down the road, it would be nice if developers could append comments and appropriate code snippets to the reference entries, to give more detailed explanations where people seem to be having trouble, to point out common pitfalls and to give little tidbits of wisdom about all the aspects of the DM language in one place. I don't see this for the F1 version, just the online reference.

PHP.net does this with their online manual, and there's a wealth of information, such as I described above, in the comments you'd never find in the manual.

The simplest way to get this done is to somehow merge the ref with the new wiki, so each entry has it's own page(s).
In response to Xooxer (#5)
I've actually discussed the comments thing with Tom, he did seem pretty interested.

If anyone's still interested my javascript reference is still avaliable. I may add some more to it if demand grows.
In response to Xooxer (#5)
Xooxer wrote:
Sometime down the road, it would be nice if developers could append comments and appropriate code snippets to the reference entries(...)

As much as I would love that feature, I'd recommend a moderated version here though.
There are too many people out there claiming to be very good programmers and yet leaving bad unperformant code.
In order to keep these comments short and a good example for informaton with the current BYOND community, I see no other way than to have this moderated before posting by some of the better and more encouraged people.

Xooxer wrote:
PHP.net does this with their online manual(...)

Though the average users age, attitude and knowledge differ a bit on both projects.

Xooxer wrote:
The simplest way to get this done is to somehow merge the ref with the new wiki (...)

I was about to suggest going one step further even.
A complete and easy to find "help" section for programmers and for players.
BYOND lacks on both points.
There is an overwhelming wealth of tutorials, ressources and help, too much even and not easy enough to access and find for someone that enters the homepage for the first time.
I would suggest a "Make games" and a "Play games" menu point on the homepage.
"Make games" leading to a page that is moderated and updated by a selected few active contributers to the Developer section and has a clear structured link and advice system.
"Play games" leading to both the games and the help that people have with playing games.
In response to Schnitzelnagler (#7)
Schnitzelnagler wrote:
Xooxer wrote:
Sometime down the road, it would be nice if developers could append comments and appropriate code snippets to the reference entries(...)

As much as I would love that feature, I'd recommend a moderated version here though.
There are too many people out there claiming to be very good programmers and yet leaving bad unperformant code.
In order to keep these comments short and a good example for informaton with the current BYOND community, I see no other way than to have this moderated before posting by some of the better and more encouraged people.

Suggestion:

Perhaps there could be ranks or "badges" given out by moderators to those who have favorably proven themselves to be competent programmers. It would serve as a certain indication of status that would grant members certain privileges like this one.

In order to prevent entires from naruto23275... Ò_Ó
In response to Hulio-G (#8)
I r comptnt coder, me wnt gee-emm.

Joking aside, and back to on-topic, what is missing from the DM Reference other than the ancient (now somewhat useless) undocumented procedures which I cannot recall.