ID:90029
 
Just a thought I want to convey to everybody waiting for a game to be developed and developing a game of their own, try not to fall into the mindset that the most important element of a BYOND game is the graphics. I dont say this with a particular game in mind, it springs up as a general comment that comes from pretty much all of the current games in development. I never see much talk these days about what these new projects will consist of, but instead I see demo screenshots, which are interesting surely, but dont give any indication of what the game is or will be. Certainly graphics are important, graphic artists with talent are rare and their contributions can really make a game stand out. Improving the GUI can make a game more user friendly, constructing good turfs can make a game more engaging (and conversely, having really poor turfs can make a game confusing and distract from the actual gameplay a great deal.), and having good character graphics and effect graphics can really make the game look sharp and seem polished.

However!
A beautiful game with poor programming will not scale well, will crash often, will have awkward lag which causes animations to look choppy and the gameplay to be obnoxious. Lacking programming will result in intrusive prompt windows during combat or exploits which leave the game unbalanced and boring. Poor gameplay mechanics will cause a game to be lacklustre and have no long term value. Poor project management will cause the game to never actually be released, to spend half a decade in limbo before being cancelled, or result in administrative corruption which undermines the balance and fun of the game.

I know that everybody on BYOND values strong pixel art, and you should. I spent a great deal of time finding talented people to help me with every project I've been a part of, and I have spent considerable amounts of time learning to do an adequate job myself. Still, I see a growing mindset on byond that gives a great deal of attention to projects based on the release of preliminary graphics, but very few blog posts about what gameplay mechanics a prospective game will have. I would hope that the people of BYOND would care more about what a game will be instead of what a game will look like, not because appearance doesnÂ’t matter, but.. if you are a member of the BYOND community you should be here for gameplay. I say this because the BYOND engine's strengths dont lie in graphics and animation; it lies in the creativity of a large community. Large game companies have no problem having amazing graphics but they do have a problem taking risks on interesting game premises and gameplay mechanics. If you want to do something truly outstanding on BYOND I would encourage more of a discussion on gameplay design and less of an obsession on which game has the best graphics.

Just an opinion, I know lots of people are big fans of the pixel art community and that is absolutely fine. This is just a reminder that a game is only as strong as its weakest link, whether that be graphics, programming, gameplay or project management.


PS: Avatar was an awesome movie, dont miss it in theaters. The 3D was actually very entertaining and the entire movie while not the greatest movie ever made was certainly the best movie I've seen in the past year.
Thank you Masterdan for being the one to say that but might I add though that graphics is something that most people look at when they first play the game, so although people should concentrate more on the actual programming the graphics is what people mainly look at when first playing the game, considering gameplay isn't visible without the graphics itself.

Most people would rather play a PS3 than a PSP for these reasons, despite the amazing gameplay features you can have on the PSP. But at the same time that's an unfair shot.

Gameboy Advance is a good example of how I feel some of BYOND's game should accel too, and I felt that in the past some of the only games that have made me felt like I was actually playing from a real console was Bleach Eternity, and Final Fantasy Online.

Graphics are kind of the first thing people look out, not so much the gameplay and programming but programming is the thing developers should be most concerned about.

~ Zack101
DarkMoonProductions wrote:

Most people would rather play a PS3 than a PSP for these reasons, despite the amazing gameplay features you can have on the PSP. But at the same time that's an unfair shot.

Most people would rather play the PSP because of it's portability, as well. You're comparing almost entirely different things when you compare a portable game system and an actual console system. Graphics are not the first thing people look for in a game, acceptable graphics + great gameplay will always be better. This applies both in today's gaming industry, and BYOND itself.

Your graphics can't be shit, but anything at a decent level will garner attention. Most of BYOND's popular games have god aweful graphics. So you're wrong, and I accept your apology.
"You're comparing almost entirely different things when you compare a portable game system and an actual console system."

Which is why I said it was an unfair shot. I should've used different words though, so I switched over to GBA.

I'm pretty confident a lot of people look at how sexy the game looks before actually playing it. The people who have respect for a game without graphics are normally older gamers who lived through the Classic Nintendo days.

90% of the time when people say they rather play the PS3/XBox over the Wii, the first thing they say is because of the graphics, not even for the games.

Also, saying some of most BYOND's popular games have "god aweful graphics" also is sheer opinion, even though I agree with that. My cousin is an addict to Resident Evil Online 2 and he tells me that the Graphics are amazing for that game, although I look at it and see it's moderate.

People have different perspective and a lot of people aren't even looking for 2D Games anymore. A lot of people are going for 3D games, so a lot of gamers who would find BYOND would go: "What are these shit graphics?" and stop playing, even if the graphics are decent.

Are you telling me you've never tested a game, saw the graphics and just decided to quit? If so, you're a trooper and you get +Points.
There is always room for games that are fun regardless of the graphics for some people. I think of how much I played graalonline, or how much some people play runescape and farmville. If you have a great idea and people have fun, well then there will be a community for you.
I'd like to point one thing out.

I made a game that looks like ass. Even I admit it looks bad. Despite that, it was regularly getting 800-1200 people playing it per day on weekends, and 600-900 on weekdays. (Those numbers have decreased now to 200-300 due to lack of updates and a decent host)

You are definitely right that good graphics will make people look at the game. But word of mouth is another excellent way of getting people to play the game, which does not require good graphics.

And there is one last thing I'd like to point out, which really annoys me.
People need to stop confusing good graphics with other parts of a game.
IE, maps or interfaces.
I often see a game with good graphics, and terrible interfaces/maps. But people comment on how good the interfaces/maps are. It is not the interface/maps that are good, it is the graphics that make them which are good.

But yeah. Good graphics will not make a bad game good, but they will make a good game better.
The Magic Man wrote:
I made a game that looks like ass. Even I admit it looks bad. Despite that, it was regularly getting 800-1200 people playing it per day on weekends, and 600-900 on weekdays. (Those numbers have decreased now to 200-300 due to lack of updates and a decent host)

well, none of your games look like ass. they just look meh because they're from RPGmaker and whatever else. i bet if you replaced all the graphics with stick figures and stuff, player count would drop 30%
(1,200 plays per day? did you accidentally mash the 0 key a couple times right there?)



also, to masterdan: i don't think it's the developers who need to learn this. any developer worth his/her salt (less than 1% of all 'developers' on byond) already could care less about graphics to begin with. it's the players that care so much about something that's less than critical
Masterdan, i'm developing a game i really need help, i'm stuck here ! add me plz: rubenvicente_22@hotmail.com.

Thanks, and please answer me quickly :P