ID:260825
 
I've been reading up on how some features of dream maker are held back due to potential abuse. (PayDimes(), reading client settings, setting mouse cursor for shooters/autolock, etc.)

And I thought of something. It's because the maker's free, so that anyone can use it, even those with the "wrong hands", so-to-speak.

So I propose a sold version of Dream Maker with enhanced features, idk, 29.99$ (one-time purchase) or something. One purchase is valid for ONE BYOND ACCOUNT. Meaning you have to be logged into BYOND in order to access the 'Plus' features of the Maker. This way, if someone abuses the system, they can easily get their maker revoked and they just ended up wasting 30 dollars or whatever the cost is.

Additionally, in order to make the purchase, you could sign a binding agreement; or supply contact information. (So it's a 18 year or older deal, unless parents do it for their children which would mean they're actually supervising what they're doing anyway, so..)

___________
Possible Cost: 29.99$ ~ 49.99$ ?
Valid for: 1 BYOND Account, you must be signed in to byond account that bought it to access the extra features of the Maker

Features (Possible):
~Read some client-side information: If someone tries to abuse this, it can easily be revoked from you and you ended up wasting money. This should be clarified in the purchase agreement
~Set things like mouse-cursor positions for systems like auto-lock for shooters/rpgs, and some cursor minigames.
~Some better map editor features? Symmetry, Flip Selection Horizontal/Vertically, Creating objects directly on the map maybe, without using code?
~Some better icon editor features? Scale and Gradient could be some
This would not work for several reasons. Some of this, such as cursor control, is client side; if it were enabled, someone that wanted to be malicious would be able to make a world for which they can send a "lock the cursor" message to clients without actually having paid for a "special Dream Maker."

The whole idea behind Byond is that everyone has access to everything important for free. You can make games for free, you can play games for free. If you make a special Dream Maker that could have more features, you very well might have people demanding lots and lots more features for it all the time, then there becomes a large gap between the free and the not-free versions, not to mention lots of development time would have to be spent on something that few would benefit from.

What do you even mean by "better map editor features such as creating objects on the map without using code"? You can add any objects you want to the map, and this has nothing to do with security either, so it wouldn't be part of a "pay for special Dream Maker that circumvents security issues" but rather would be part of the normal Dream Maker anyway.

Then there's also the issue that, if this is a one time payment, it probably would not be worth it for Byond as it would cost more money than it would generate. If you had a few hundred people get in on it, there's some thousands of dollars, but then you need to have people keeping track of all this extra information you're talking about. And you said "supply contact information and be 18+" which presumably to make it so you can start legal action against anyone who engages in illegal activity, which is why you're suggesting the special Dream Maker to begin with, but then that's more money spent if you have any plans to enforce that. If you don't plan to spend gobs of money to legally support this, then you don't need contact information nor to be 18+, which means there's no way to track people, which means there's no reason to pay to circumvent security, which means that the whole reason for doing this in the first place just went down the tube and now it's just "pay Byond $$$ for extra development abilities."

On the surface your idea doesn't sound so bad, but I don't think it would work in practice.
Yeah, not a good idea, basically for the reasons Lodu has already stated.
In response to Loduwijk (#1)
Strange. You only listed negatives, you never listed the positives. Your post seems biased and suffers because of it.

I'll wait for more people to discuss. Only 2 people isn't representative of the collective byond community. Or is it? >_>
In response to Mista-mage123 (#3)
Mista-mage123 wrote:
Only 2 people isn't representative of the collective byond community. Or is it? >_>

Yes, it is. Paying for DM=BAD.
In response to SuperAntx (#4)
It's similar to a Jail Bond system, where you trust the court with your money so you won't break the rules.

It's used in many systems to ensure a user doesn't try to break rules or cause a security hazard.

That's the only reason money would be involved.
In response to Mista-mage123 (#3)
Mista-mage123 wrote:
Strange. You only listed negatives, you never listed the positives.

Only because I don't think it would work how you envision it, as well intentioned as you may be.

I think that if these things were to be enabled, it would work best for them to be enabled for everyone. All or nothing. I think that making it $30 and age 18+ requirements would stop malicious people from abusing things about as much as those same restrictions stop underage people from drinking beer, watching porn, or any other activities that it is supposed to hinder. It does hinder it, but not enough to bother with.

Personally, I think some of the things that are left out for security reasons should be included with safeguards. Like your cursor-control suggestion; include in Byond a key combination that disables it in case the game tries to abuse it. Dream Seeker could even notify you that the game was attempting to manipulate the cursor in some way, ask you whether you want to allow it for the duration of the game (maybe include a "don't ask me again" checkbox to make it permanently allow or deny), and have the notification also tell the player that some certain key combination will turn off the game's ability to retain control.
I don't think locking the software to develop new games that can potentially bring more people to BYOND is such a good idea. I think it'd be a better idea if there was more merit for developers to add features for BYOND Members. Perhaps making money off of a royalty gig where subscriptions net BYOND a certain percentage for being the middleman.

People already expressed annoyance at the popup that is visible when joining a BYOND world whose hub has the "this world has member features" checked, including the hub authors themselves. Perhaps this restriction should be controlled by the holder of the hub entry. The popup could still be forced, but the hub owner can specify how long? The hub owner can set this time to 0 seconds to make a "Continue" button appear instead of waiting, which is what some of us want. Perhaps the hub owner can also influence the message displayed when you log into their game (if they can't already; didn't really use this feature much)?
Not in a million years would I ever get behind this.
BYOND is in desperate need of more new and exciting games. Making people pay for the tools is not the way to achieve this result. Not to mention we lose one of our strongest aspects: Anyone can make a game for free.

Trying to sell Dream Maker would probably put BYOND deep into the soil.
In response to Tiberath (#9)
Tiberath wrote:
BYOND is in desperate need of more new and exciting games. Making people pay for the tools is not the way to achieve this result. Not to mention we lose one of our strongest aspects: Anyone can make a game for free.

Trying to sell Dream Maker would probably put BYOND deep into the soil.

Indeed.
Anyone else remember the whole dramatic 3 months of everyone crying because of Membership was announced?
http://www.petitiononline.com/byond/petition.html
Case in fact.
If the BYOND Team kept pushing and pushing people to the edge of their wallets next to a cliff, they'll grab their wallets and jump not caring what the cliff will lead to.
Yes, you're suggestions seem somewhat helpful in removal of a lot of garbage and helping developers out a small tad bit more (if they even pay), but the fact of the matter is...
Build Your Own Net Dream, and my net dream is free fun entertainment that I can potentially control and start growing my programming experience for college soon.

Wow, totally looking at that...
Someone used my key twice.
I used to be on the 50 page protesting that BYOND should charge for membership, but then apparently they didn't like me too well so they started copying me and some others...
_>
Ahh, the good old days of Drama on BYOND.
Used to be Pager and Games.
Now Forums and Games.

If anything, I think the staff has BYOND pretty set up right now.
A better 'rip depository' would be nice, but I don't hold high expectations of Dan and Tom and everyone.
It's a tough job going through hundreds upon hundreds of games and people.
If anything...
I'd say they should charge $2.00 extra per membership purchase for a 'Layout Editor' for Hub Entries and Profile Pages.
Something sleek, easy, and Click and Drag based.
And while others don't want that, they just simply not check mark a little box at buy-time.
EDIT:
Anyone know off hand of even a fact if that idea has been previously suggested already in the forums?
O.o Second thinking about it...
I really would like to see a 'BYOND Easy Layout' function for a small $1.00 - $2.50 (Depending on cost of getting someone to actually set it up).