Coding at school in Off Topic

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ID:278004
 
Dec 4 2008, 7:13 pm
I'm 16 and go to a technology magnet school. Two of my classes require the use of computers: Introduction to Networking and Introduction to Programming. I'd say I'm pretty much set on what will happen in my future. T-E-C-H-N-O-L-O-G-Y. In the Programming class we're using a program called Alice right now. Now, to me, it's a very useless program other than to teach VERY BASIC concepts of programming languages such as conditional statements, parameters, inheritance, variables, functions, procedures, etc. In Networking we're learning... you guessed it! Networking! We're learning how to build our own network from TOTAL scratch. From a vanilla laptop nonetheless ;p

Anyways. I've been doing a bunch of my coding in those two classes and the teachers have definately noticed. My programming teacher has taken a slight interest in it and lets me do my thing as long as I complete an assignment a day and keep up to speed with the class (no problem since I already know all the concepts! >.<). And my networking teacher agrees that "an intro to programing class for a person already programming is like UGH".

ANYWAYS xD (i always get off topic -.-) Anyone else do coding at school? :D A few others do it too at my school. Does anyone like think better while at school than at home? I do, strangely enough.
#1 Dec 4 2008, 7:23 pm
I'd rather not take programming classes in school, it would label me as a nerd. Of course, I already am labeled a nerd because of my grades and memory, but I digress.

Besides, there's no way I'm EVER going to take visual basic classes (you aren't allowed to take C++ or Java without take visual basic to my knowledge). I'd rather teach myself, the only obstacle in my way at the moment is figuring out how to use the VC++ compiler (I hate reading the help manual, and looking for what I need).
#2 Dec 4 2008, 7:35 pm
Mizukouken Ketsu wrote:
ANYWAYS xD (i always get off topic -.-) Anyone else do coding at school? :D A few others do it too at my school. Does anyone like think better while at school than at home? I do, strangely enough.

Well, I've already graduated, but I can tell you of previous occasions when it has been so.

I discovered BYOND in 2003, so that's year nine for me. I didn't really get into the programming scene until 2004, which seems odd, because programming is the reason I came here. Anyway, I was terrible at it, no doubt. Terrible, but imaginative. That's the cause for my success now, hurrah.

As for programming in school, yeah, I've done that. I got my laptop in 2005, year eleven. I'd occasionally sit down with Notepad++ and work away in PHP while my IT teacher was going on about the basics of HTML. (HTML courses in school, you get one a year, bug generally, they're only two weeks in length, so most people forget them.) My IT teacher knows me well enough that I can pass the class without ever being there. He learned that when he was teaching Microsoft Excel to people. They were learning the spreadsheet functions, I was diving into BASIC and programming specific macros to make backups of the spread sheet and what not.

PHP and Visual Basic are one thing, as for DM, I didn't know the language well enough to show off. I might-have-done a couple of times to easily impressed females in the IT classes I was in, but that's about it.

Funny story about HTML. The teacher was plugging away at the use of frames, but if you know your stuff, you know frames are bad (depreciated in HTML 5 IIRC). So I made the entire website using CSS, div and span tags and some javascript here and there. But the teacher said he would like me to use frames. So just to spite him, I wrote the website to conform to both, with the index page giving you a selection. That earned me a beautiful A+ smiley face.

Then there was the time in Information Processing and Management (IPM) in year twelve. Pretty much falling asleep as the teacher is explaining the difference between "data" and "information". My god that was fantastic. Anyway, the year seven class next to us knocked on the door and was begging for help in their HTML class. Having already proven my unwillingness to continue listening to the most boring lecture in human history, I volunteered. I got to spend the rest of my double IPM helping year sevens with their HTML. That was fantastic fun. (They really had no clue either, I've never seen anyone use four <body> tags in a page before...)
#3 Dec 4 2008, 7:42 pm
In response to Jeff8500 (#1)
Actually in my Programming class we're going to be getting into Java a little bit soon. Like after Christmas vacation or somewhere near there. So you don't NEED visualbasic I guess.
#4 Dec 4 2008, 7:56 pm
In response to Mizukouken Ketsu (#3)
In our school, it is a requirement for languages like C++ and Java. I'm probably going to skip straight to C++ at home when I get more free time.
#5 Dec 5 2008, 8:31 am
In response to Jeff8500 (#4)
My highschool's highest computer class was "E-commerce", which basically means "HTML". We didn't really even touch CSS, and we didn't touch PHP or Javascript. I was explaining to the teacher how to do things in HTML, because she was a business major and didn't know a thing about computers. But that was like 3 or 4 years ago. History, really. Still, E-Commerce is highest class in technology department.

Going into Community College, Programming 101 was QBasic, which is an outdated, old, and rather useless scripting language. It was sad, really. I wouldn't like VisualBasics much, but I would have much rather a modern, useful, language over QBasic.
#6 Dec 5 2008, 2:26 pm
In response to Danial.Beta (#5)
There's an E-Commerce class in my school, but it has NOTHING to do with HTML or CSS or PHP and whatnot. It's like a business class I believe. Not sure, haven't had it yet.

There's a web design class where they use Macromedia Dreamweaver. That's where the kids learn HTML and CSS I think.
#7 Dec 5 2008, 3:44 pm
In response to Mizukouken Ketsu (#6)
Mizukouken Ketsu wrote:
There's a web design class where they use Macromedia Dreamweaver. That's where the kids learn HTML and CSS I think.

That sounds like a contradictory statement there.

Edit: Also, it's Adobe Dreamweaver. It's been part of Adobe Creative Suite ever since Adobe bought Macromedia out.
#8 Dec 5 2008, 4:15 pm
Mizukouken Ketsu wrote:
And my networking teacher agrees that "an intro to programing class for a person already programming is like UGH".

That really depends on who is teaching it. Just because you're 'already programming' doesn't mean that you understand everything that programming methodogy has to offer. Given this statement, I'd say its very likely that be the case.
#9 Dec 5 2008, 5:09 pm
In response to Alathon (#8)
1. You don't me
2. You don't my skills
3. You don't know my teacher

There's 3 factors off th top of my head that would prove you wrong. Sorry if I were unclear about the statement.
#10 Dec 5 2008, 5:27 pm
In response to Mizukouken Ketsu (#9)
Mizukouken Ketsu wrote:
1. You don't me
2. You don't my skills

You have made quite a few posts on these forums, which demonstrate both your attitude and your programming ability. To be honest, your programming ability seems kind of average. Also, yes, I'm being nice and ignoring your grammar error.

3. You don't know my teacher

It's almost obligatory that high school comp. sci. teachers are borderline incompetent, and many times they aren't even past the borderline.
#11 Dec 5 2008, 5:36 pm
In response to Popisfizzy (#10)
Popisfizzy wrote:
Mizukouken Ketsu wrote:
1. You don't me
2. You don't my skills

You have made quite a few posts on these forums, which demonstrate both your attitude and your programming ability. To be honest, your programming ability seems kind of average. Also, yes, I'm being nice and ignoring your grammar error.

A sixteen-year-old can hardly be said to have a comprehensive grasp on programming -- it takes many decades to really gain a mature proficiency, and he probably realized that on some level. No need to cut anybody down just for the hell of it.
#12 Dec 5 2008, 5:40 pm
In response to PirateHead (#11)
PirateHead wrote:
No need to cut anybody down just for the hell of it.

I wasn't just doing it for the hell of it. He was being a jerk, so I felt the need to reciprocate.
#13 Dec 5 2008, 6:00 pm
Mizukouken Ketsu wrote:
I'm 16 and go to a technology magnet school.

So let me get this straight: you Americans learn this kind of stuff in high school (about networking and web design), yet us Dutchies learn it in college, attending a specific college for ICT?

...

...

???

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#14 Dec 5 2008, 8:48 pm
In response to PirateHead (#11)
PirateHead wrote:
A sixteen-year-old can hardly be said to have a comprehensive grasp on programming

Not necessarily. It also depends on when one started, and when one started using computers at all. Though, instead of absolutely generalizing you could say it's considerably likely, yes. Age is not an absolute factor, though.

it takes many decades

Now, you're quite exaggerating, maybe many years, but less than one decade. >_> You almost suggest only old men can be good programmers. =P If I assume 'many' to be at least 3, this means if you start at 16, you'd only ever become a competent programmer when you're 46.
#15 Dec 5 2008, 11:04 pm
In response to Kaioken (#14)
Thank you. I didn't really get started on learning DM until the beginning of this school year, but I've been using Dream Maker on and off about a year prior. I consider my "average" skills to be quite good as before I wasn't even borderline "newbie". I'm making progress, that's for sure. And I alsways have my programming teacher, who knows Javascripting and a couple other languages (C++? I'm not sure) to ask if I have any questions on a general concept.
#16 Dec 6 2008, 12:58 am
In response to Mizukouken Ketsu (#15)
I do not think Alathon meant to offend you, he barely pointed out that some basic concepts of programming (languages) can be tricky to grasp.
As an example, you mentioned Alice and the teaching of object-oriented programming being boring to you, yet [link] implies that you had not fully understood the object/instance concept in object-oriented programming.
This is very common when people do not learn the basic concepts, but learn how to "code right away".

Please note that this is by no means intended to "dis you", just my guess on the subject.
#17 Dec 6 2008, 6:37 am
In response to Schnitzelnagler (#16)
That concept isn't basic in my eyes, yet it might be basic to you. That concept was very simple, yes, but the way it needed to be done, wasn't. There are still a ton of ways of doing simple concepts that I do not know about yet.
#18 Dec 6 2008, 7:03 am
In response to Mizukouken Ketsu (#17)
Late in the topic, but whatever -- I do a bit of programming at school, and I know a bunch of other people do, too. I usually do it in my study hall, in an empty room, after I finish my regular homework. 'tis fun.
#19 Dec 6 2008, 7:43 am
In response to Mizukouken Ketsu (#17)
Mizukouken Ketsu wrote:
That concept isn't basic in my eyes, yet it might be basic to you. That concept was very simple, yes, but the way it needed to be done, wasn't. There are still a ton of ways of doing simple concepts that I do not know about yet.

That concept *is* basic as far as programming goes, however. My point wasn't to drill you, but you're apparently passing off what could be potential knowledge as something you 'already grasp'. You clearly don't grasp all aspects that pertaining to programming methodogy (or 'basic programming'), so don't dismiss potential information so easily =)

Off the very top of my tired head, basic subjects that you should probably understand without having to look it up / think much about it are:

Object oriented models (Factory, Singleton, et cetera)
Compiler basics (Syntax, lexical analysis, f.ex)
Order of operations and other language-specific constructs
Garbage collection
Breaking down systems into logic / pseudocode
Variable types / conversions / handling
Other object-oriented subjects (Polymorphism and general inheritance, etc)
Trees for data storage
How to effectively debug and profile functions/systems/programs

I'm sure I'm forgetting several others. The most important thing in the above is to understand how programming languages really work, irrespective of language syntax and language-specific quirks (like DM handling garbage collection for you, as well as I/O, sockets, network etc).

None of the above is beyond 'basic' in DM (thinking specifically here of debugging and garbage collection), but you'll benefit from all of it in creating a game for certain.

Most all, if not all of the above will appear in any half-decent programming methodogy class - However, more often than not, high school programming classes are not half-decent. Which is why I mentioned that it also depends on the teacher.
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