In response to Tom (#19)
It's your show Tom, do it if you think it's worth it in the long run, It is a good idea if you do it right IMO.
In response to Tom (#19)
Tom wrote:
I agree that bulk token purchases make more sense, and from our POV it's better to get a single chargeback for $50 than five for $10. One thing we could do is bring back the option to fill your wallet, perhaps with a discount at larger (say > $20) amounts.

That's how most services handle these types of things. They let you purchase $5, $10, $20, $50 amounts of points/tokens and what not. Lots of people buy large amounts and then don't actually spend them, so it's rather profitable. People are also more likely to use them because they have so many and they're just easier to use.

You could also only allow the proper transactions to be withdrawn (payments to a listed/trusted game/developer). To avoid more paperwork and headaches.

On top of all of that, I know back then a lot of people liked to send cash to you and you had to handle a lot of things personally, but now they have "universal game cards" where you can make an account and people can buy these game cards and use them to purchase BYOND money and then the game card company pays your account, much like PayPal. Although they probably take a bigger cut. I'm sure a lot of people would use this method, and as far as I know, they can't get refunded, so no charge backs.
In response to Tom (#19)
I would hope that means the payDimes function in DM would return or what ever it was called.
In response to Zaltron (#22)
The proc to transfer dimes simply does nothing now.
In response to Nadrew (#23)
I know, which saddens me. If they do put some sort of system back in place I hope they bring back that function.
In response to Zaltron (#24)
Zaltron wrote:
I know, which saddens me. If they do put some sort of system back in place I hope they bring back that function.

Along with the ability to subscribe in-game as well, hopefully.
When will the "Flash Client" be released? I really want to know more information about it, I've already read some cool features about it, but I haven't seen any screenshoot. I believe it'll be awesome, though. Thank you, and merry christmas, Tom & Byond Staff Team :D
In response to Tom (#4)
Tom wrote:
we're leaning towards the industry standard of 30%

For all the awkwardness of accepting payment and setting subscriptions manually, Paypal taking 3.6% is ultimately going to win me over 30%.

I know you guys need to make money somehow, but just under a third is a rather large cut, especially to those of us in Europe where US dollars doesn't get us very far.

30% is borderline Riba/Usury, and I condemn every service that charges such high rates. Of course I give way on the fact that its possible without using your automated subscription service, other websites don't give such an option.
In response to Tom (#2)
Tom wrote:
As we get closer, I'll release a detailed post on the restrictions. I'm already behind on posts as I was supposed to post something about the new website changes, but since those are (hopefully) just about ready, I'll just do that with the release this week.

I was just curious if the release is being delayed and for how long.
In response to Acebloke (#27)
Acebloke wrote:
Tom wrote:
we're leaning towards the industry standard of 30%

For all the awkwardness of accepting payment and setting subscriptions manually, Paypal taking 3.6% is ultimately going to win me over 30%.

I know you guys need to make money somehow, but just under a third is a rather large cut, especially to those of us in Europe where US dollars doesn't get us very far.

30% is borderline Riba/Usury, and I condemn every service that charges such high rates. Of course I give way on the fact that its possible without using your automated subscription service, other websites don't give such an option.

30% is exactly what Tom said, it's industry standard.

Apple's App Store provides less functionality (but a larger market) than BYOND does and takes a 30% cut of all profits. This comes after charging a base $99 just to become a licensed developer. After that you have tax on top of everything, plus relatively little support or promotion through Apple. More hampering than any of this is the review and update process for apps released which can cause more hurdles.

You're welcome to setup your own Paypal-powered service - I've done so with three of my non-BYOND projects. But be warned that Paypal is most certainly not your friend by any stretch, and if anything bad happens - it's rolling straight down hill to you.

I remember in February of this past year I had been processing roughly $400 a month in payments for the services I provided. One person in particular had ended up donating roughly $330 over the course of three months, totaling 19 transactions. At the end of the three months, the player stopped playing the game and filed "lost or stolen card" with American Express. AmEx in turn disputed all the transactions with Paypal, who promptly forwarded it on to me. I provided detailed transaction logs to Paypal along with an email exchange I had with the customer a month prior. Paypal and AmEx completely ignored the provided evidence and instead supported the chargebacks.

During that time, I had $330 removed from my account (which had a balance of $20, so I had $310 removed from my checking account) along with a hold placed on an additional $15 * 19 transactions, or $285. I literally woke up one morning with $500 less in my bank account than I had anticipated - over a months full profits. When the dispute was settled, I literally lost all that money permanently and without recourse.

So far over my 3.5 years of using Paypal as a processing service, I have had roughly 65 chargebacks totaling $1235 in addition to losing the full amount of every transaction, averaging about $14, or $910. This ends up being 17% of my total transactions, or literally almost 1 in 5 transactions being fraudulent. 17% of transactions as fraud actually renders an additional 17% of my transactions as "breaking even" leaving me 62% (don't forget Paypal's cut) of my transactions as profit. Isn't it interesting how close that is to 70%?

Think carefully before you dismiss a percentage figure for being "too high" before you've considered the ramifications of any system. 30% looks high on paper, but until you've experienced waking up and wondering what you'll do with the missing $500 you were going to use toward rent, you might think it's better to take on payment processing yourself, but I'd say it's better to leave those risks up to somebody else.


~Polatrite~
In response to Polatrite (#29)
It's not just 30% to the developer. It's 30% plus what PayPal takes (and taxes). And the transactions have to go through PayPal twice. So whatever problems you have with PayPal, you get them double with BYOND's system.

And just because Apple is greedy, doesn't mean BYOND has to be. And it's so easy to make money with Apple, people overlook how much Apple is taking. That doesn't make the amount right, though.
In response to Polatrite (#29)
Polatrite wrote:
30% is exactly what Tom said, it's industry standard.

Just because its industry standard doesn't make it right.

You're welcome to setup your own Paypal-powered service - I've done so with three of my non-BYOND projects. But be warned that Paypal is most certainly not your friend by any stretch, and if anything bad happens - it's rolling straight down hill to you.

I already did. Like 5 years ago, which is why I know I can quote 3.6%.

-Stuff about fraud-

I don't get why you haven't filed a lawsuit to make this money back, but then I live in Bureaucratic Europe where my accounts are defended by both my home nation and the European Union, both at my (cheap, and potentially free) disposal in the event such a case arises.

Think carefully before you dismiss a percentage figure for being "too high" before you've considered the ramifications of any system. 30% looks high on paper, but until you've experienced waking up and wondering what you'll do with the missing $500 you were going to use toward rent, you might think it's better to take on payment processing yourself, but I'd say it's better to leave those risks up to somebody else.
~Polatrite~

Obviously your opinion is slanted due to your personal circumstances, so it is understandable but I presume BYOND would continue to use Paypal as they do now with the $1+10% fee as they would for the 30% fee, but would still result in money being taken out of _your own account_ not BYOND's in the event of a repeat case of identity fraud.

My experiences of paypal to date has been different and in fact I've got money back from things I assumed would have been lost forever. I don't know how much that is based on the country where I live, as it clearly operates on different rules to protect both consumer and business.

As 30% is 26.4% more than 3.6%, I'd stand to lose over a 1/4 of what I'm currently getting now.
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