ID:93275
 
I'm not singling out any one person in particular with this post. If you happen to have made a recent blog post covering any of this stuff, you're not any more guilty than the hundreds of people who have come before you. With that said, consider this your wake up call.


1.) Check out my base!
Holy hell, how hard is it to draw a 32x32 naked man? What your "base" looks like is so completely irrelevant that taking the effort to make a big blog post about is really just a sign that your game A.) Sucks, and B.) Will never actually get made.

Does a carpenter drop what he's doing each time he installs a door knob so that he can show it to everybody? Does a cook leave the kitchen to let you know whenever he adds another ingredient to your meal?

Nobody cares about your base icon. Furthermore, if you actually find yourself in a debate with someone concerning who has the better base icon, your best life choice at that point is probably murder-suicide.


2.) I made a title screen, so I must have a game now!
The first thing that most BYOND 'developers' do when they decide to create a game is to make the title screen. The second thing that they do is immediately post a blog or forum topic about that title screen, as if they're already half-way finished with their game. (Ironically, they usually are.)

Doing a quick google image search for your favorite anime character and using your crap Photoshop skillz to super impose them over a background you made using the built-in filters is not game design. All that you're doing is stealing artwork drawn by someone with actual talent and taking a dump on it.

Cool title screens are a nice touch for games that don't suck. And if you fit the developer description above, your game sucks. No exceptions.




3.) Hey guyz this game is all original!
BYOND is always going to be a joke to outsiders so long as any developer who actually does some coding or pixel work for themselves feels compelled to post the fact that their game is "OMG ORIGINAL!!!" in big bold letters on their hub page. That's like me putting a sign on my lawn proudly proclaiming that I made myself a bowl of cereal this morning.

Guess what? Making a game actually involves... MAKING A F***ING GAME. --- It's a secret so highlight to read it

If the big selling point for your game is the fact that it isn't stolen, then you and your game are a joke.


4.) I need a coder for my sweet game idea!
No, no you don't. You need to go learn how to code. If by some miracle you manage to trick someone else into coding a game for you, you're definitely hallucinating and you need to call 911 immediately.

People don't put the time and effort into learning how to code DM just so they can work for free bringing your idiotic game concept to life. You might as well ask an Olympic Swimmer to swim the 100 Meter in your name while you sit in the bleachers giving them uninformed advice on their breast stroke.


5.) Let's help BYOND!
Frankly, I don't care whether you want to help BYOND or not. But most of you who talk about it all the time are hopeless.

Do you really want to help BYOND? Then STFU. Right now.

No, I'm serious. Shut up. Stop talking about how much you want to help BYOND. Stop organizing stupid little contests. Stop trying to figure out how to promote BYOND across the internet. STOP.



If you truly want to do your part to help BYOND, go make a freaking game. Not an anime game, not a fan game: an original IP that belongs to you.

Can't code? Find someone who can and help them with Pixel Art, Mapping, Music, Sound Effects, Story Writing, Web Site Design, Game Promotion, etc etc etc. Everyone has a talent. Use yours and go find yourself a team of people who are actually going to get something done instead of talking about how cool their goddamn title screen is.

The only way BYOND is going to be successful, and I mean the only possible way, is for people to start making actual games.

You don't even have to make a sprawling RPG or complex Strategy game to make a huge difference. Can you imagine how different BYOND would be if there were even five new quality original games released every month? Even if they were only minor games, like BYOND versions of Battle Chess/Capture the Flag/Tower Defense/Any Board Game Ever Made, it would completely change the face of BYOND.

One last note: If you're making a fan game then you're part of the problem, so don't go running your mouth about how you want to improve BYOND.



Everything I've said here is incredibly obvious. I realize that the average BYOND 'developer' is a 13 year old kid who wants a Naruto game... but nowadays all developers seem to be emulating the idiot anime kid behavior pattern. Take some pride in your work. Stop just talking about making games and go do it.
well said.
One last note: If you're making a fan game then you're part of the problem, so don't go running your mouth about how you want to improve BYOND.

"Fangames are video games made by fans based on one or more established video games. Many fangames attempt to clone the original game's design, gameplay and characters, but it is equally common for fans to develop a unique game using another only as a template."

i'd warrant that NEStalgia is a game based on one or more established video games (NES RPGs in general, but more specifically games such as Dragon Quest); much of the game is a clone of the original games' designs and gameplay, with many unique features included.

sounds like a fan game to me
Zaole, 1. Silk, 0.

No offense on ya, just this information we already know.
The part is, getting those who don't know it to actually understand it and grasp the meaning of it.

BYOND, the new religion!
Zaole wrote:
sounds like a fan game to me

If that's your rationale, then Half Life is a Doom fan game. Sonic is a Mario fan game. WoW is an Everquest fan game. You know exactly what I mean by fan game, and your definition doesn't even apply, so don't try to troll.

Once again, how about you play NEStalgia before you try to criticize it? Or do you want me to turn the magnifying glass around on one of your projects, because if you'd like to compare games with me then that's a conversation that I'd love to have.
do you want me to turn the magnifying glass around on one of your projects, because if you'd like to compare games with me then that's a conversation that I'd love to have.

i don't recall me criticizing NEStalgia's quality in my previous comment. care to actually talk about the discussion at hand instead of pulling out the "my game is better so your argument is invalid" piece?

If that's you're rationale, then Half Life is a Doom fan game. Sonic is a Mario fan game. WoW is an Everquest fan game. You know exactly what I mean by fan game, so don't try to troll.

no, by that rationale, none of those listed are fan games because they don't closely enough resemble the game they're inspired from to be considered as such. the argument i made is that NEStalgia does have enough similarities to warrant being a fan game; i am, of course, basing this off all of the information and screenshots you've provided in the past [see: "Essentialy "Dragon Warrior 3 meets World of Warcraft", NEStalgia is an amalgam of the best generations of RPG gaming."]. if the actual game is wildly different from the info you've provided, you can't expect me to know any better or be able to account for that.

Once again, how about you play NEStalgia before you try to criticize it?

i would, but you won't let me (plus i'm not criticizing it)
But what if I put my original base ON the title screen?!
Again, NEStalgia has just as much in common with Dragon Warrior as WoW does with Everquest. As a retro RPG throwback game, of course it's going to have similarities with games from the era: that's the point.

You suggested in another thread that I might hold NEStalgia bans over the heads of people who bothered me. Well, you're officially the first recipient of such a ban, because if you're going to trash it before you even play it, then you might as well not play it at all.

I have a distaste for obvious trolling. Especially when it's not creative. Literally using a wikipedia definition of a phrase and then trying to squeeze my game to fit it is just pathetic.

I'll be awaiting the apology that I know you're inevitably going to make sometime down the road, at which point I'll remove your ban. Grow up, Zaole.
Airjoe wrote:
But what if I put my original base ON the title screen?!

Then make a hub entry that says you drew it yourself and you're set!
Every game borrows from another in some way. I don't think "fan games" are inherently bad, as long as they provide original gameplay or a new interpretation of an existing medium. Everquest was basically a fangame for D&D but it was still original. But if someone got ahold of the Everquest source and started modifying the resources to create new clones... well, we know what happens there.

I really like this post, particularly the last part. People are constantly asking me if they can join BYOND Staff (whatever that means) and do things to help BYOND, and I just tell them to make a game. We've created a tool to hopefully make creating and promoting games easy, but we're not selfless: if you make a hit game, we benefit, so it's in our best interest to encourage that.

I'm looking forward to NEStalgia not only because I'm sure it's a quality game, but also because I want to see how SilkWizard goes about marketing it (and how we can help).
http://www.byond.com/members/TheMagicMan/files/ sadfrogbase.jpg

I-I'm all depressed now.

But I pretty much agree.
I always find the "check out my base" posts comical. Because I usually have to pull out a magnifying glass to even see anything. (32x32 or smaller sprites on a 1900x1200 resolution are tiny)

I also dislike title screen topics. Because most of them just Googled for an image, applied a few random photoshop effects (if they can be bothered), then added their games name to it.
How exactly is that anything to be proud of.

Also, the people asking for "coders" are not as bad as the people who want "coders, iconers, map makers, interface designers" and about 29 other people with highly specific roles. (While they themselves have no role, other than asking for other people to do the work for them)
I would play DBZ Disco Rebirth on 3 conditions.

1) The colored checkers under whatever character that is in the picture did a wave effect non-stop.

2) The title page looped this song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izWRKl06XEY

and 3) The base icon danced on the waving checkers.
Tom wrote:
Every game borrows from another in some way. I don't think "fan games" are inherently bad, as long as they provide original gameplay or a new interpretation of an existing medium.

I absolutely agree that the definition of "fan game" that you are using here does not make the game inherently bad. Any professional developer you talk to will rattle off a list of games that inspired them - same type of thing with film directors, musicians etc. All of the best games on BYOND have been inspired by other games, and that's a good thing.

My issue is that Wikipedia's definition of a fan game is that it's much too broad to be applied to the games I'm referring to, as the widely accepted meaning of "fan game" is a game made as another entry in an existing series or that uses existing lore and characters from a movie or TV series. I do strongly believe that these types of games do absolutely nothing to help BYOND... apart from possibly bringing in more users to buy memberships


Tom wrote:
I really like this post, particularly the last part. People are constantly asking me if they can join BYOND Staff (whatever that means) and do things to help BYOND, and I just tell them to make a game.

I hope more people start to listen to this.

YouTube never would have got off the ground if all of the original users had spent their time trying to convince the rest of the world that YouTube had a lot of potential, instead of producing and sharing video content that proved it.


Tom wrote:
I'm looking forward to NEStalgia not only because I'm sure it's a quality game, but also because I want to see how SilkWizard goes about marketing it (and how we can help).

Thanks! When I start my big marketing push outside of BYOND in April we'll see if I know what I'm doing.
Tom wrote:
I really like this post,

... Really, Tom?
I'm going to be very disappointed if you don't really make DBZ Disco Rebirth.
Entertaining post.

I agree with pretty much everything.
Thanks captain obvious!

Once again the obvious is stated on BYOND, I see no purpose of this post. Instead of actually helping anything you're fanning the flames, stop telling people what to not to do and start giving critism and helping others.

I find this really funny because on the NEStalgia hub you state "...an original MMORPG..." yet you're telling others to stop pointing it out.

Original is BYOND standards so there is no reason to even try to create a game that isn't original. I mean people have lost sight of what B.Y.O.N.D. actually stands for, Build Your Own Net Dream.

Right now I see you here as a Hypocrite because instead of helping the actual cause you're telling people what not to do when developing a game
Looking forward to NEStalgia. I know it'll be worth playing since DWO was fire.
Is this Artemis thing the new Chatters? And by that I mean the special gathering place for people who loathe me?

Ryan Deux wrote:
I find this really funny because on the NEStalgia hub you state "...an original MMORPG..." yet you're telling others to stop pointing it out.

The distinction "original" is necessary in describing the game to avoid confusion over the existence of a new retro RPG.

The problem isn't the word "original". The problem is with phrases like "This game uses 100% original code and graphics!". It's like saying "Isn't it amazing that I didn't steal this game?!"


Ryan Deux wrote:
Right now I see you here as a Hypocrite because instead of helping the actual cause you're telling people what not to do when developing a game.

Actually, I'm telling people what not to do and I'm making games.

You're telling me what not to do and lurking a chat program.

Look up the definition of the word "hypocrite".
Bischoff wrote:
Looking forward to NEStalgia. I know it'll be worth playing since DWO was fire.

Thanks! One thing I can say with certainty is that anyone who liked DWO will absolutely love NEStalgia.
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