Implementing systems that can't be implemented yet in Design Philosophy

ID:153598
 
Aug 27 2003, 6:12 pm
While working on Haven's character creation system, I've run into a small snag -- the creation of assets (acquired resources, monies, and property) and equipment (personal affectations and belongings) can't be done until I flesh out the objects and items to create, but I'm deliberately restricting myself from creating objects out of turn.

I could create a subset of the items to generate, but in that case, I would run into a snag, because, without having the rest of the game's systems as a frame of reference, I have no way of judging how they could be fairly represented in cost (because, behind the scenes, it all boils down to cost).

I could try creating all of the objects now, but in that case, I would once again run into a snag, because (besides taking forever) there would be dozens of graphic-less, function-less items in the game.

I could create a bunch of artificial objects that wouldn't be part of the creation system, but in that case, I would run into (yes) another snag, because I'm planning on allowing players to utilise the saving system immediately from the first demo, and that means that if they received test items, then I would either have to create replacement systems, which is still more work, or force them to create a new character, which isn't very nice.

Finally, I could simply skip those parts of the generation process for now, and only give the player basic starting equipment. This is yet another snag because the starting equipment would not suit the skills selected by the player.

What do you think I should try?
#1 Aug 27 2003, 6:14 pm
Force them to create a new character. Give some explanation like "The savefiles weren't compatible". Who knows? They probably won't be. If they are, you can always write a function to import the old savefile and strip out the artificial objects.
#2 Aug 27 2003, 8:59 pm
Create everything you need in the form of spreadsheets so that you have plenty of references, and can modify or redo the spreadsheet whenever you feel it needs it without having to mess with any code.

(If I understood what you were saying.)
#3 Aug 27 2003, 9:31 pm
In response to Jon88 (#1)
I find a version var in the savefile to be most usefull. Whenever you change something that needs a file wipe, just increment the var, check if its the same when you load, if not make them start a new char.
#4 Aug 27 2003, 10:50 pm
The last one is pretty good. You could either give them:
A) Basic starting equipment.
B) A list of equipment packages to choose from. (Just a few, Warrior Pack, Explorer Pack, Magic User Pack, ect)
C) Create a equipment generator. It basically looks at the your skills, then selects a few items based on the top three skills.

B is probably my favourite.
Just wondering, how many pre-final version beta versions do you plan on releasing? Just the demo, or keep on adding to the demo until the final version?
#5 Aug 28 2003, 11:30 am
In response to DarkView (#4)
DarkView wrote:
The last one is pretty good. You could either give them:
A) Basic starting equipment.
B) A list of equipment packages to choose from. (Just a few, Warrior Pack, Explorer Pack, Magic User Pack, ect)
C) Create a equipment generator. It basically looks at the your skills, then selects a few items based on the top three skills.

Haven's first demo (alpha test) is exclusively a test of the character generation system. C is what has always been planned, but I can't implement C until I have items in the game. Like I said -- implementing systems that can't be implemented yet.


B is probably my favourite.

Yeah, it doesn't sound too bad. However, I think I might go with basic starting equipment after all, at this point in time. I'll just convert characters' equipment points into pocket money and asset points into banked money and debts owed to the player, for now. Whenever I implement a new item that should be part of starting equipment, then every player in the game will get one of those items absolutely free (that way, people who start their characters early don't have to restart their characters to get the newly implemented starting items). Under that system, they don't lose the points they put in, but I don't have to implement anything other than cash and a temporary money storage system.

Once I have a fair selection of items to choose from, I can activate the equipment system that I will already have in place, and force players to create their characters over.


Just wondering, how many pre-final version beta versions do you plan on releasing? Just the demo, or keep on adding to the demo until the final version?

Right now, Haven is in extreme alpha (i.e. I'm hosting public tests of critical game features as I add them). At this current point in time, I have the character generation system finished, and that's all. There is no game yet. I make this crystal clear in a popup at the beginning, but I'll bet most people will skip right through it anyway...

I don't think I'm ever planning on giving out the host files for Haven (not publically, anyway).
#6 Aug 30 2003, 11:45 am
I could create a subset of the items to generate, but in that case, I would run into a snag, because, without having the rest of the game's systems as a frame of reference, I have no way of judging how they could be fairly represented in cost (because, behind the scenes, it all boils down to cost).

If that's the only drawback to this approach, go with this approach. If you make a fair guess at what the initial costs should be -- and you can probably do a reasonable job of that simply by considering the prices for similar equipment in existing RPG's -- it'll be good enough to get going. If prices change later on, the only people who will have a serious grievance are the people who have invested heavily in one type of item. You can handle that either by posting an up-front disclaimer, or by looping through all such people and awarding them credits to compensate for the adjustments. (For people who would wind up with credit penalties, it's probably best just to let them slide.)

Of course this is based more on abstract brainstorming than real experience with online RPG's, so Deadron or others may have a sound refutation based on experience with EverQuest or the like. I suspect, though, that if you make your plans clear to the players up front, most will be fine with that, and the ones who aren't probably aren't the players you want.