Most criticism regarding BYOND games is either delivered to individual games, or just directed at the fangame community, so I figured I'd give some criticism to most BYOND devs, who do things that they may not realize is making their game frustrating to play. That said, not all of this applies to every developer or game on BYOND, and they are just my opinions and suggestions based on what I have seen.
In order of which ones I thought of first:
1. Excessive Movement Delays
Unless you know some way to truly make it integral to the gameplay, (And nobody has done this yet, as far as I know.) knock it off. It's annoying and unecessary. It makes the game feel sluggish and boring, even if it's actually a well-designed game. It's very off-putting and it emphasizes the things that BYOND does poorly.
2. Removing BYOND's built in toolbar
I'm talking about the thing at the top of the default skin that gives you a bunch of options. Until you've implemented replacements for the functionality that the toolbar gives you (namely, screen size and sound options) don't even bother removing the damn thing. Very few things can make your game look crappier than all of the sprites being stretched beyond recognition to fit my screen resolution. It looks bad, and it's frustrating when you've removed the only means of fixing it.
3. Disregarding everything BYOND does well
BYOND is a tile-based engine. It was made for MUDs, dungeon crawlers and roguelikes. That's what it's best at; yet most devs seem to ignore that in favor of trying to shoehorn an action game in to an engine where it does not belong. Feel free to disregard that if proper native pixel movement is ever implemented, or if you are some sort of DM Macguyver.
4. Flat tiles
Unless you're making a game in a top-down perspective, things probably shouldn't look so flat. Very rarely do I see games actually try and make their walls look like walls- (Something that can be done easily; if you really don't know how to do it, a cheap solution is to simply make another wall sprite where the lower half is darkened, and place it at the southmost parts of your walls.) usually they just look like flat slabs of brick or logs or whatever material your wall is made of.
5. Hiring the first five people who apply for moderating positions.
Programmers do this a lot. If they don't feel up to hiring their friends as moderators, they usually just pick the first couple of people who apply for the job. It usually results poorly, most of the time the moderators in BYOND games are xenophobic and elitist. They think having moderating abilities is a priviledge, rather than a responsibility. Carefully choose your moderators, is what I'm saying- lest your playerbase be driven off.
6. Disabling macros
There's little reason to do this, unless the presence of user-made macros breaks your game or something, or you already have a very rigid custom control scheme set up. This is particularly true if your game is mouse-centric, in which case most players will want to use wasd instead of the arrow keys for movement.
7. Using RPG maker graphics
They're overused, not to mention copyrighted. And they don't even look that great, either. Particularly when you try and mix other graphical styles with them. A hair sprite from the Tales series is not going to look good on the template, stop doing that; it isn't even to scale.
8. Large music files
Nobody wants to wait five minutes for your game's titlescreen music to load. If you're going to convert a music file from mp3 to ogg so that it'll work at BYOND, at least compress it to a reasonable size. There are better ways of handling music on BYOND- even if it's mp3-quality songs you want.
And no, just because your game is in my favorites list does not mean you are not guilty of doing some of these things.
BYOND's default toolbar is only pointless when you've replaced the functionality it gives you. And yes, I am aware that you can set up your map to only display at the proper size.
I'm complaining about how a lot of devs don't seem to understand this. As for Decadence, it's a noble attempt but it still seems clunky, and for the most part the game is more about strategically placing yourself somewhere than it is about actually moving around gunning down people. | |
No..
I can only agree with a few of the pointers. Only a couple of these are even commonly done problems. | |
Lets see.
1. I disagree. "Movement delays" are done for many reasons, the main one is GOOD DESIGN. The default movement speed in BYOND is simply too fast, and in most cases it needs to be toned down. Name me 5 games (non-BYOND) where you move fast enough to go from one side of the map to another in seconds. Oh wait, you probably cannot, because these games have a fixed movement speed. This is what a movement delay is attempting to do, give you a fixed movement speed. 2. Don't care about this. If the game is well designed, you shouldn't have anything to worry about if it is removed or not. 3. People should play to BYONDs strengths, but people also enjoy seeing what they can make BYOND do. Who are you to say what they can and cannot use BYOND for? 4. Graphical style is a personal preference. I have nothing to say here. 5. Idiots going to be idiots. In most cases, there is no reason that any BYOND game needs more than 1 moderator, the person who made it. (Most large MMORPGs have like one moderator per every 100,000 players. Name me a single BYOND game with that many players. Here is a hint: None) 6. If disabling use made macros is in a game, it is probably done to stop people trying to exploit some sort of system. You probably should be given options to adjust or change controls in this case however. 7. Graphical style is a personal preference. I personally think RPG Maker XP and VX graphics look better than anything anyone on BYOND has made or used. And if they are used correctly I think they can look amazing. The ToS does state you're not suppose to use them outside of RPG Maker though, but a ToS has never stopped anyone on BYOND before. 8. I have no preference on file sizes. If the game is hosted on a website, I could download a 1GB file in less than 3 minutes. There is no game that big on BYOND. But for people who have slow internet connections the option to use either high or low quality music (as separate downloads) should be available. | |
@The Magic Man
1.If your map is small enough to go from one end to the other in mere seconds with the default speed, then you've probably got a game set in a very tiny area map (20x20, maybe less) where it is potentially justified. I am talking about games like Hazordhu and FFO, where the maps are large and the movement speeds are crippling and pointless. 3. I'm simply providing suggestions, as a player. 4. Lack of perspective is not a graphical style. 5. Most MMORPG's also have terrible communities, and they are also MMORPG's- their userbase is large enough so that the loss of a few hundred people among several hundred thousand is not that big a deal. Furthermore, one person can not be expected to moderate a game 24/7, regardless of how large the playerbase is. MMORPG's usually have complex ticket and player report systems that the moderators work with, most BYOND games do not. 6. If somebody is abusing macros, just ban them or reprimand them. There's no reason everyone should have to suffer with some awkward keyboard layout just because of one or two idiots. 7. I disagree; they're generic, overused, and people frequently use hair-styles from entirely different sprites on the RPG maker character template, which results in weird lopsided hair that does not properly fit and looks like an oversized wig. | |
u mad?
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The movement delay in Hazordhu is to provide some kind of motive to use boats, mounts, etc. as transportation rather than just walking, I believe.
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1. The default move speed in BYOND is 10 steps in a second. This means on a 100x100 map, you can walk from one end to the other in 10 seconds.
In comparison, most maps in say Final Fantasy 6 (and most SNES rpgs) don't get much bigger than 40x40. It can take you anywhere from 10-20 seconds to walk across these in a straight line unhindered, and they use 16x16 tiles. In FF6, you move at around 4-5 tiles per second. Which is half the speed of the default move speed in BYOND (or 1/4th the speed if we're counting in pixels). There is no real reason to be able to move as fast as you do in BYOND by default, unless the game is suppose to be fast and action based. If the maker of the game decides you can only take 3 steps in a second instead of 10, that is a design choice. It is not inherently bad, it is part of the game. 4. I don't know what world you live in. But when I look at my walls, they are not darker at the bottom. Even if I look at them from above. The shading applied to things like walls would depend on lighting, not perspective. 5. Most BYOND games rarely need moderating at all. If they're well made they rarely need moderating because there is nothing players can do to exploit the game. I use to run a RPG that use to have anywhere from 15-30 players online at a time, and I had another game that could reach 20-40+ players at a time. I never found the need for a single moderator at all. I was more than enough to handle any problems that occured. Also, the reason BYOND games don't have complex features to report bugs/players is because people have not added them. Add them if you need them. 6. People should not be able to abuse macros in the first place. That is just proof of a poorly made game. The game having poor controls is also an issue with the game being poorly made. Also, having options built into the game to change controls looks more professional and polished, and prevents any potential macro abuse. As far as I am concerned, if the person making the game never gave you the command to do it, you should not be doing it. (All of the games I have made allowed you to use exactly 0 verbs and macros, because I did not want people using them) 7. I disagree. The RPG Maker XP/VX graphics are professionally made graphics of the highest quality. They also have a very good looking style. Also, you're talking about bad edits. Bad edits to graphics do no mean the original graphics are bad. I could take any sprite on this planet, regardless of quality, and edit it in such a way that makes it look horrible. That does not mean the original sprite (or the set it comes from) is bad. But you know... FACTS AND OPINIONS. http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsopinions/ | |
The Magic Man wrote:
I personally think RPG Maker XP and VX graphics look better than anything anyone on BYOND has made or used. Are you joking? I mean really? Even ignoring the fact that using RPG Maker sprites is technically plagiarism, I cannot adequately express how dumb this comment is. But I'm going to settle for "terminally hyperdumb." | |
You missed one. Using goto. >_>
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Movement Delays:
I disagree entirely. Moving around at one tile a tick is retardedly fast and only leads to huge, empty maps with lots of padding. Having a movement delay allows you to densely pack your maps with content without making them seem as small as they would be if you could move around at light speed. Decadence for example has a lowered movement speed by default. This is also combined with several movement delays tied to shooting, getting shot, and so on. Movement delay is a very valuable tool when executed correctly and shouldn't be disregarded just because some people are used to traveling 1000 tiles in 10 seconds. Removing BYOND's built in toolbar: I disagree entirely. Modern games don't have file menus, they're tacky and a waste of vertical screen space. Developers should instead incorporate these settings into in-game options. Disregarding everything BYOND does well: It almost seems like you're referencing Decadence specifically with this one. BYOND can do many things, some better than others. As a developer your job is to pick and choose which features are best suited for your engine. Decadence for example takes advantage of BYOND's tile system in order to provide cover, weapon accuracy, movement delay, and some other features. While the projectiles travel on a per-pixel basis, they still move through the world and collide on a per-tile basis. Player movement is also tile-based and apparently it's done so well I've had numerous people confuse it for pixel movement. Flat tiles: I agree entirely. Hiring the first five people who apply for moderating positions: I agree entirely. Disabling macros: I disagree. If your players must resort to setting their own custom scripts you have failed as a game designer. A good compromise is to provide your players with an in-game keymap they can change, similar to most modern PC games. Using RPG maker graphics: I agree for the most part, but it is forgivable to start a game with RPG Maker graphics to get your engine running then replace it all with original art later. A lot of professional games are actually huge masses of copyright infringement during their alpha stage anyway. Large music files: I agree to an extent. It's always good to compress your media files but you should never go to the extent of making your game look or sound like crap in order to get under some arbitrary file limit. You're not trying to fit your game onto a disk after all. | |
I disagree entirely.
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Mkay, if you just wanted to rant instead of debating about your opinions I'll go ahead and unsubscribe from the comment thread.
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lmao, china's 1 sentence reply to SAx's long essay was hilarious
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It seems like people don't realize all that BYOND does for you. If you wanted to make a game from scratch, think of all the things you'd have to do:
Load images from file and manage these resources internally. Load sound effects and music from file and play them. Write a client that can display a set of objects arranged on a 2D grid, taking into account layering, overlays, offsets, animations, and visibility. Handle raw keyboard input and map the keys to actions. Write a TCP/IP server and client and have the server manage the game and send data to clients as necessary. There are a lot of things I didn't mention, but when you really think about it, BYOND's strength is not that its good for making MUDs, its strength is that it greatly simplifies game making. It's strength is that you can write this: world << sound('quack.wav') And play a sound to everyone in the game. You didn't have to worry about how the clients store and locate the sound file, how it gets loaded from disk and played, or how the server notifies the clients to play that sound. If you think that BYOND is only good for making MUDs and RPGs then you're really selling it short. | |
I didn't say that it was good for ONLY MUD's and Roguelikes, I said that's what BYOND is best at. (That's what it was initially made for, too.)
I'm talking about games like MMW, where it tries to be a platformer in an engine that doesn't even have pixel-based movement. | |
What makes you think BYOND can't do platformers well?
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http://www.byond.com/games/DBOTeam/DragonballOnlineII
this game uses pixel movement for projectiles just fine, and works as an action game just fine, despite byond being tiled. Guess we're dm mcguyvers. | |
Wait, what? Do you know it's possible to force icons to display in 32x32 via map control options? BYOND's default toolbar is pointless, in my opinion.
BYOND is a tile-based engine. It was made for MUDs, dungeon crawlers and roguelikes. That's what it's best at; yet most devs seem to ignore that in favor of trying to shoehorn an action game in to an engine where it does not belong. Feel free to disregard that if proper native pixel movement is ever implemented, or if you are some sort of DM Macguyver.
This whole paragraph can be proven wrong by this game.