Locked: On fans & fangames in Announcements

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#60 Jan 28 2011, 6:17 pm
Yup, that's a different definition than remove. I'm glad you have the motivation to go out and look these things up when you know you're not sure about it.

Hopefully this will become a new habit for you and we'll avoid these petty squabbles from now on.
#61 Jan 28 2011, 6:21 pm
I think you are suppressing fan games because you have made a specific tag category and area for them to be viewed as a whole instead of separating them and having them splashed about in different areas of the website.
Further more you are giving us the ability to check if we want fan games to be displayed or not?
And then you are causing us this problem of making all original fangames be shown side by side only.
And also you even let us search for fangames in the search engine still!
#62 Jan 28 2011, 6:24 pm
Good point, Teka123. It sounds more like we are oppressing the fangamers. What a tough life!
#63 Jan 28 2011, 6:25 pm
Members(all) should have a setting view fangames[] or not starting off not having the box checked in sure people who want to play fangames will check it then the more serious "original game" people wont have to complain all the time.
#64 Jan 28 2011, 6:26 pm
SuperAntx wrote:
Yup, that's a different definition than remove. I'm glad you have the motivation to go out and look these things up when you know you're not sure about it.

You're the one that keeps saying removed. But if you want to pointlessly degrade into trolling then I'll gladly make you look stupid. Fan games have been removed from the default listing, proper categorization tags have been removed from fan games, and they have been removed from being featured. I was only saying they are being suppressed, however, which they unarguably are, to some degree.
After the site change; They went from being fully listed, to requiring a check box, to not being listed at all. The only step I can think of beyond that would be completely removing them.

Tom wrote:
Which definition applies, pray tell?

All of the above?
#65 Jan 28 2011, 6:30 pm
I'm tired of people pretending like Anime is actually beneficial to this website. Go roam around the anime games and observe the communities. Hold a conversation ( if you can ) with the owners of some of the fan-game owners. You'll quickly learn that the majority of them are incompetent, psychotic freaks.

If you or anyone else are this fed up with the way BYOND is sorted now, take your useless game and player-base and find another website to infest. This rip and fan-game crackdown was long overdue.

BYOND doesn't need Anime to stay alive. BYOND needs people who can actually create quality games. You should be celebrating instead of whining about your little copyright-infringing Dragon Ball and Naruto nonsense that shouldn't have been on the website in the first place.
#66 Jan 28 2011, 6:32 pm
EmpirezTeam wrote:
I'm tired of people pretending like Anime is actually beneficial to this website.

And I bet you are one of the people who are incapable of telling the difference between anime/fan games and rips.
#67 Jan 28 2011, 6:32 pm
EmpirezTeam wrote:
....

Stereotype.

#68 Jan 28 2011, 6:32 pm
I dunno, I'm looking at your page there and I don't see a definition that fits. Fangames are still listed, so they aren't suppressed (and even if they weren't listed, that wouldn't be suppression). If you mean they don't get the same front-page billing, well, then most "listed" games are suppressed too because they don't get the banner advertising. I'm not sure what your point is other than to stir up confusion. My post above says exactly what is being done, and for original fangames, it isn't tantamount to suppression one bit.
#69 Jan 28 2011, 6:34 pm
Falacy wrote:
EmpirezTeam wrote:
I'm tired of people pretending like Anime is actually beneficial to this website.

And I bet you are one of the people who are incapable of telling the difference between anime/fan games and rips.

I know the difference. My point is that they're both useless to this website.

If more developers put some actual effort into their games, maybe we'd have games as famous as Minecraft. Instead, we're overloaded with dunces like you who can't come up with anything that doesn't already exist.
#70 Jan 28 2011, 6:37 pm
EmpirezTeam wrote:
If more developers put some actual effort into their games, maybe we'd have games as famous as Minecraft.

If BYOND was 10,000 times more powerful and accessible than maybe we would.

Instead, we're overloaded with dunces like you who can't come up with anything that doesn't already exist.
...My point is that they're both useless to this website.

My fan games have been setting the standards around here for years. Not only for other games, but raising the bar for the software itself. Feel free to show me something better in any way. Including originality.
#71 Jan 28 2011, 6:39 pm
So I have a question. If we(I) say... Messaged the owners of the original content. Like say I wanted to make a game based on X-Men (hypothetically I don't plan to) and so I sent in a letter or E-Mail to Marvel stating that I wanted to make a small non-profit game on this website using the likeness of the X-Men and their story. And they agree to allow me to make said game (of course also providing proof of this). Would I be able to have it featured? I know currently fan games aren't featured because of the legal issues with it as well as rip issues and such. But If I were given permission legally by the owners of the content could the game be featured then?
#72 Jan 28 2011, 6:39 pm (Edited on Jan 28 2011, 6:45 pm)
The only reason that BYOND fan games have ever been successful in terms of player counts is that they draw people in using an established IP. Fan game creators don't earn their players; they mooch them. Google is already doing all of the work for you.

I'd wager that most of the fan game players who are now complaining rarely even visited the BYOND Games page prior to this redesign. That's because most BYONDers search for games using the pager.

It's time for fan game creators to step aside and let those of us who are developing truly creative and unique games take over. Heck, if you're all such talented game designers then why not follow suit and create you own original games?
#73 Jan 28 2011, 6:47 pm
Moussiffer wrote:
But If I were given permission legally by the owners of the content could the game be featured then?

We can cross that bridge if and when that day comes. I will say that the opposite scenario-- of an outside franchise contacting us-- will cause us to remove a game at a moment's notice; and yes, it has happened in the past.

As such, I think it would be much more intelligent to create your own IP, because then it isn't even an issue and your game won't be subject to the whims of an outside property.
#74 Jan 28 2011, 6:48 pm
Tom wrote:
I dunno, I'm looking at your page there and I don't see a definition that fits.

Well, I don't really know how to explain it any better. I would say every definition on that page fits almost literally with the situation here.

SilkWizard wrote:
The only reason that BYOND fan games have ever been successful in terms of player counts is that they draw people in using an established IP.

Though that is partially true, its hardly the driving force. Fan games with 0 players far outnumbered those with any type of decent player count. I would say they draw fans from similar BYOND games more than they do from outside sources. It also isn't just some magical button that you name your game FAN GAME X and get infinity players. Bleach Eternity just happens to be one of the best games on BYOND, aside from having Bleach based content, and it gets barely any players. What matters most around here is the mindless formula. AFK Punching of Logs. Make an "original" games focused around that, lets see how it turns out.

I'd wager that most of the fan game creators/players who are now complaining rarely even visited the BYOND Games page prior to this redesign. That's because most BYONDers search for games using the pager.

I did daily, though I can't speak for anyone else. I hardly used the pager, except for joining bookmarks to my own servers.

It's time for fan game creators to step aside and let those of us who are developing truly creative and unique games take over.

There's a gigantic difference between "fan game creators" and rippers. Another distinction nobody seems capable of making.
#75 Jan 28 2011, 6:53 pm
Falacy wrote:
If BYOND was 10,000 times more powerful and accessible than maybe we would.

Dwarf Fortress is extremely popular and is a game that can easily be made in BYOND. BYOND is in some ways limiting but without a doubt powerful enough.

My fan games have been setting the standards around here for years. Not only for other games, but raising the bar for the software itself. Feel free to show me something better in any way. Including originality.

Setting the standards? Decadence, Casual Quest, and NEStalgia is what setting a standard looks like. Not ripped graphics from a GBA game. Setting a standard is not having your player-base subscribe so you can illegally profit from your anime games.

I'd say the only reason your games even survive is because you do what most developers on this website don't do: actually finish a game. If the talented people on this website who are unfortunately procrastinators and quitters actually finished some of their projects, you'd be done for.
#76 Jan 28 2011, 6:53 pm
Falacy wrote:
Well, I don't really know how to explain it any better. I would say every definition on that page fits almost literally with the situation here.

I really wonder if we're looking at the same page. Or if you are talking about rips and I am talking about fangames. Fangames are not suppressed here. They are listed. Again, just because something doesn't have the same exposure as something else does not mean it is suppressed-- so long as it has exposure at all. Otherwise, like I said, you could make an argument that all but the banner games are suppressed since those get the most exposure.

We have a hierarchy of advertisement levels on BYOND that goes Featured > Original > Fangame > Incomplete > Rejected. You could make a case that the last two are "suppressed" but even that isn't true because anyone can still play them. The others are all trivial to find. Are we suppressing games when the hub goes down?
#77 Jan 28 2011, 6:58 pm
SilkWizard wrote:
It's time for fan game creators to step aside and let those of us who are developing truly creative and unique games take over.
Fallacy wrote:
There's a gigantic difference between "fan game creators" and rippers. Another distinction nobody seems capable of making.

You're the one who keeps comparing fan game creators to rippers.

I'm asking you a question: If you're so great at making games, why not try to stand toe-to-toe with the original game developers and make something of your own?
#78 Jan 28 2011, 7:02 pm
EmpirezTeam wrote:
I'd say the only reason your games even survive is because you do what most developers on this website don't do: actually finish a game.

Aside from that, Falacy does a few things very well. He has invested in his business to keep running servers 24/7. He runs a community and (presumably) gives and takes feedback. These are very important. If he did this for an original game (and I see he's made a few attempts), he could contribute to our new efforts here. The benefits of having an existing player base cannot be understated.
#79 Jan 28 2011, 7:06 pm
SilkWizard wrote:
I'm asking you a question: If you're so great at making games, why not try to stand toe-to-toe with the original game developers and make something of your own?

I have several original projects. 2 of them are listed on the first, page 2 more on the second, didn't bother searching past that. That's by both popularity and player counts. I would say my toes are doing pretty well against all contestants. There are also some pretty major updates for PC that have been underway for a long while. Hopefully they will bring a lot more players to the game. Maybe I'll add some of that log punching =P
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