The path of a Jedi.. in Design Philosophy

ID:153467
 
Jan 11 2004, 10:19 am
Here I am wanting to work on my Star Wars game, but I need some advice.

I'm trying to think of the best way of letting the character become a Jedi, and since this is going to be a Star Wars game and not a Jedi game, I can't just start them off as one.

One idea is having the character stumble upon the Jedi Academy. If the character fits the prerequisites, let them train there.

Flick has suggested making characters a Jedi by invitation only, so I can make them play however I want. If the person roleplays well, and they fit the Jedi prerequisites, then invite them to train at the academy.

What are your thoughts?

~>Volte
#1 Jan 11 2004, 10:23 am
Volte wrote:
Here I am wanting to work on my Star Wars game, but I need some advice.

I'm trying to think of the best way of letting the character become a Jedi, and since this is going to be a Star Wars game and not a Jedi game, I can't just start them off as one.

One idea is having the character stumble upon the Jedi Academy. If the character fits the prerequisites, let them train there.

Flick has suggested making characters a Jedi by invitation only, so I can make them play however I want. If the person roleplays well, and they fit the Jedi prerequisites, then invite them to train at the academy.

What are your thoughts?

~>Volte

I don't think luck should have anything to do with them becoming a Jedi. If they aren't lucky enough to stumble across the academy they shouldn't have to suffer. Also there's the possibility of someone revealing it's location, taking a lot away from the game play. I'd go with Flick's idea.
#2 Jan 11 2004, 10:28 am
In response to HavenMaster (#1)
HavenMaster wrote:
I'd go with Flick's idea.

The problem there is logging all of the actions. People are going to be hosting their own servers, so I can't be in all of them at once to monitor them. That'd push me to logging all of the actions to a file, and eventually that file would build up and become huge. I wouldn't want to clear the file, because other administrators may want to view it.

~>Volte
#3 Jan 11 2004, 10:36 am
In response to HavenMaster (#1)
I don't think luck should have anything to do with them becoming a Jedi.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read... of course it should! "Luck" is the most basic manifestation of the Force.

It was "luck" that lead Artoo and Threepio to crash on Tatooine in the first place, "luck" that lead them to the Skywalker farm, and "luck" that completed the chain of events which brought Luke together with Ben Kenobi.

And what about the climactic battle at the end of Episode 1? It was Anakin's "dumb luck" that he accidentally closed the cockpit canopy, started the ignition sequence, shot all the bad guys in the hanger bay, blew up the forcefield generating ship, and got back safely.

Of course, this "luck" isn't really luck... the Force is in all things, all around us, all the time. So if someone "stumbles" across the academy, that shows they're a good candidate, doesn't it?

I think a combination approach would be best. Most player characters would be far too old for traditional training, but there could be a variety of eccentric Jedi NPCs who aren't above taking a promising apprentice regardless of age... that would have the added advantage of being mobile, so players wouldn't be guided by the force of web forums and pagers to the academy doorstep.

If Volte wanted to make luck less of a factor, he could even have trainers home in on (or even spring into existence in response to) promising Jedi candidates.
#4 Jan 11 2004, 10:55 am
In response to Hedgemistress (#3)
Hedgemistress wrote:
I don't think luck should have anything to do with them becoming a Jedi.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read...

You should read the forum more closely.

of course it should! "Luck" is the most basic manifestation of the Force.

It was "luck" that lead Artoo and Threepio to crash on Tatooine in the first place, "luck" that lead them to the Skywalker farm, and "luck" that completed the chain of events which brought Luke together with Ben Kenobi.

I perfer to think of it as "destiny", not to be confused with luck. And, no, they're not the same thing, just don't ask me the differences. :-/

And what about the climactic battle at the end of Episode 1? It was Anakin's "dumb luck" that he accidentally closed the cockpit canopy, started the ignition sequence, shot all the bad guys in the hanger bay, blew up the forcefield generating ship, and got back safely.

I coulda sworn that that was just an easy way to end a complicated situation.

Of course, this "luck" isn't really luck... the Force is in all things, all around us, all the time. So if someone "stumbles" across the academy, that shows they're a good candidate, doesn't it?

You don't actually believe in the Force, do you?

I think a combination approach would be best. Most player characters would be far too old for traditional training, but there could be a variety of eccentric Jedi NPCs who aren't above taking a promising apprentice regardless of age... that would have the added advantage of being mobile, so players wouldn't be guided by the force of web forums and pagers to the academy doorstep.

If Volte wanted to make luck less of a factor, he could even have trainers home in on (or even spring into existence in response to) promising Jedi candidates.

That sounds good.
#5 Jan 11 2004, 10:57 am
In response to Hedgemistress (#3)
Hedgemistress wrote:
I think a combination approach would be best. Most player characters would be far too old for traditional training, but there could be a variety of eccentric Jedi NPCs who aren't above taking a promising apprentice regardless of age... that would have the added advantage of being mobile, so players wouldn't be guided by the force of web forums and pagers to the academy doorstep.

About the age thing.. DarkView had suggested a while back, that after character creation assign a midichlorian count to your mob. If your midichlorian count is above a certain amount, have you appear in the academy as a young person and begin your training. The reason I don't like this is that it's forcing people to play a young person. I like people to be who they want. (Even though them appearing out of nowhere and being 30 years old is a little unrealistic.. But c'mon, people are running around with laser swords!)

I like the idea of having those select few Jedi Masters out there who are willing to accept older promising people. I'd perhaps have them wandering around, travelling to different planets, and just have it luck that you bump into one.

If Volte wanted to make luck less of a factor, he could even have trainers home in on (or even spring into existence in response to) promising Jedi candidates.

I was thinking about something like this as well, but I'm still kind of trying to see what ideas people have before I set my mind on something.

~>Volte
#6 Jan 11 2004, 4:41 pm
In response to HavenMaster (#4)

I perfer to think of it as "destiny", not to be confused with luck.

It was a manifestation of the Force, which believers would call destiny and skeptics would call luck. People who are "strong with the Force" are unusually favored by fortune, both on an immediate and personal level ("dumb luck") and on a grand and sweeping scale ("destiny"), but it's all the same thing: the strands of the Force tying the universe together.

I coulda sworn that that was just an easy way to end a complicated situation.

Of course it was, it was horrible and hackneyed and it was quite possibly the most ridiculous battle sequence ever shot. That's external, though. Internally, it was the Force.

You don't actually believe in the Force, do you?

No, but within the context of the Star Wars universe, it's real whether or not you believe in it... and since it's supposed to be influencing things everywhere and all the time... what's wrong with saying it's responsible for random events?

Heck, if he wanted to be "interesting", he could keep track of random results (because, in a Force-driven universe, they're not really random, are they?) and figure Force/midichlorian rating retroactively... people who are unusually lucky MUST be strong with the Force.

I don't actually advocate doing that, but it would be an interesting approach to the game. The lucky get luckier.

==========================================

"I hit the Ork."

"No you didn't. You had a 68% hit chance and the random generator returned a 67 so the computer said you hit the Ork. You don't really believe in hitting or Orks, do you?"
#7 Jan 11 2004, 4:56 pm
In response to Hedgemistress (#6)
I'm not sure what was worse in that movie. The entire Anakin space fight scene, or the rest of it. I mean, the podrace scene was the most popular, but it's really silly, for various reasons.

I'm also confused as to why lightsabers seem to have completely random effects on things. I mean, you'd think it'd just cut people, but then Obi-Wan sort of just gets vaporized by it. And Vader doesn't find it strange. And then they also seem to have the ability to reflect lasers, though they don't seem to reflect normal light at all. Or maybe they do, and that's where the glow comes from. But then, wouldn't they only be able to deflect certain colors of lasers? "Uh oh, he's got a red lightsaber! Quick! Everyone switch to blue!" And from what I understand by overhearing nerds talking, the lightsaber is really just a looped string of supercuttingness. If it's just a string, how does it deflect lasers?

It's fun to pick apart popular movies.
#8 Jan 11 2004, 5:56 pm
In response to Hedgemistress (#6)
Hedgemistress wrote:
Of course it was, it was horrible and hackneyed and it was quite possibly the most ridiculous battle sequence ever shot. That's external, though. Internally, it was the Force.

The Force in Star Wars is like magic in fantasy games, in that it can easily be used to explain away most plot holes. =P

Garthor - With the lightsaber/Obi-Wan thing, it was because Obi-Wan had somehow arranged for himself to become one with the Force (or something like that). And Vader did think something was amiss, at least in the book. It's been so long since I last saw the movie that I can't remember how he reacted in the movie, but it was explained in the book.
#9 Jan 11 2004, 6:05 pm
In response to Garthor (#7)
Most of that stuff is explained at one point or another, your just content to be ignorant of the subject so you can have your fun.
#10 Jan 11 2004, 6:10 pm
In response to Garthor (#7)
Garthor wrote:
Obi-Wan sort of just gets vaporized by it. And Vader doesn't find it strange.

When a Jedi accepts their death, they vanish and turn into a ghost-like figure. At least that's what I've read. (Yoda vanished too)

If you watch the other uses of a lightsaber, they cut right through it. Lightsabers can cut through anything, save for the blade of another lightsaber.

And then they also seem to have the ability to reflect lasers, though they don't seem to reflect normal light at all. Or maybe they do, and that's where the glow comes from.

The glow is the blade, which is generated from a special crystal that's in the hilt of the lightsaber. Lightsaber blades repel energy. Laser bolts are made of energy, as are lightsaber blades. (Which is why lightsabers can't cut through other lightsaber blades)

"Uh oh, he's got a red lightsaber! Quick! Everyone switch to blue!"

Actually, the color of the blade is supposed to reflect on the Jedi's personality. (Apparently all evil people have the same personality :P)


I have way too much time on my hands. :D

~>Volte
#11 Jan 11 2004, 7:14 pm
In response to Volte (#10)
Here's a point you're all missing... none of the movies have ever shown a light saber deflect a laser. Those guns everyone carries? They're BLASTERS. They shoot little packets of plasma gas.... that's why their shots are visible as (relatively) slow moving bolts or balls.

Force or no Force, it would be hard to get your blade in position to block something moving at the speed of light.

As for the podracing scene... ugh. Critics compared it to Ben-Hur. Was Ben-Hur animated by Disney? Because if not, I don't see the comparison.

I think George Lucas ruined two good things with the prequel trilogy:

One, the "serial shocker" nature of the original movie(s)... yeah, yeah, he likes to talk about his master plan, but the real reason he called the first one Episode IV was as an homage to space opera serials... if he did have an idea for the "first three movies", it was NOT what he's filming now... Episode IV clearly opens on part two of a good old fashioned cliffhanger. Unless Episode III ends with Vader's ship closing in on the the transport vessel carrying Princess Leia, then we've all been had.

Two, the huge universe(s) full of non-canonical speculation about the events leading up to Episode IV. I've never been much for reading Star Wars fiction, but from what I gather, everyone kind of assumed the "Clone Wars" involved people using clones of public figures and Jedis and whatnot in different plots. Instead, we find out that the only polt involved millions of clones of one guy whose knack for losing his jetpack is rivaled only by his talent for losing battles.

If the clone army evolved into the stormtroopers, no wonder the stormtroopers have such lousy aim.
#12 Jan 11 2004, 7:53 pm
In response to Jotdaniel (#9)
Jotdaniel wrote:
Most of that stuff is explained at one point or another

Most being the keyword there ;p
#13 Jan 11 2004, 8:13 pm
I was actually thinking about this the other day while playing Bounty Hunter.
The idea I liked best was you have to be really good at the game during the first thirty minutes of playing. Not just good, really good.
If you start within the Republic and are an exceptional player the Jedi Council will pick up on your talent, and possibly allow you to face the tests. Provided you show some interest in the force.
You can still use the force, since the force itself is not controlled by the Jedi. So it is possible to learn the ways of the force without help. The main drawback of that however is that you wont learn as much or as fast. Sort of like teaching yourself maths.
The other down side of do-it-yourself Jedihood is that the Jedi Council wont agree with your actions, and will most likily track you down. This means you must stay far away from the Republic.



Of course this all depends on when the game is themed. It wouldn't work in a New Hope to Return of the Jedi timeline.

Anyway, I think you can avoid making this a Jedi game by making good subsystems. A bounty system would get you just as many Bounty Hunters as Jedi/Sith. A good space travel system would encourage players to become star pilots.
You'll also have to make it so that you can't just log off and create a new character every thirty minutes. I'd consider taking out the ability to delete characters all together.
#14 Jan 11 2004, 8:21 pm
In response to Volte (#5)
Volte wrote:
About the age thing.. DarkView had suggested a while back, that after character creation assign a midichlorian count to your mob. If your midichlorian count is above a certain amount, have you appear in the academy as a young person and begin your training. The reason I don't like this is that it's forcing people to play a young person. I like people to be who they want.


Actually, I think by that I meant that still start out as a twenty five year old, you've just been getting trained for the last thewnty years. There would be a small period of time where you actually take the tests as a five year old, but this ends as soon as you pass/fail the test.
#15 Jan 12 2004, 4:29 pm
In response to DarkView (#14)
Maybe you can select your age and if you want to have a chance you select yourself as a very young age.
#16 Jan 12 2004, 5:22 pm
In response to DarkView (#14)
Why should you be able to monitor who is and isn't a Jedi? you should put masters around the game world, and if you fit their requirements, they may train with them.

It kind of sounds like you want one kind of jedi, but remeber, Jedi is like a class or religion, the person can be any diffrernt kind, even a physo.
#17 Jan 12 2004, 5:51 pm
In response to Shades (#16)
Shades wrote:
Why should you be able to monitor who is and isn't a Jedi?

Well, the Jedi were monitored. Just because you use the Force doesn't make you a Jedi. Even those who weren't Jedi and used the Force were usually monitored to some extent since the Jedi Council was aware of disturbances in the Force.

It kind of sounds like you want one kind of jedi, but remeber, Jedi is like a class or religion, the person can be any diffrernt kind, even a physo.

Jedi isn't one of those "state of mind" things. Think of them like medival Knights. You don't just go "I carry a sword, I'm a Knight".
If Jabba the Hutt was accepted by the Jedi Council he would be a Jedi. If Obi-wan didn't get accepted by the Jedi Council but still managed to become that adept with the ways of the Force he wouldn't be a Jedi Knight.
The key thing to remember however is that Jabba the Hutt wouldn't get accepted, and if Obi-Wan didn't get accepted and continued to pursue the ways of the Force the Jedi Council would have probably stepped in.
#18 Jan 12 2004, 8:00 pm
In response to Shades (#16)
Shades wrote:
but remeber, Jedi is like a class or religion, the person can be any diffrernt kind, even a physo.

This isn't true. The Jedi are more like a guild or clan than a class. Think of it as something like the military. If someone could use the Force (even better than Yoda) and carried a lightsaber, that doesn't make them a Jedi. They have to go through training and tests to become a Jedi.

~>Volte