So I was thinking, while doing some extremely boring filing for this organization I help out at, once a stable version of 4.0 is released what is the BYOND Staff going to do?
They've really got three choices:
1. Shoot for version 5.0
2. Start on a completely new program.
3. Make some awesome first party games for 4.0
This may seem kind of a weird idea, but think about it. The release of BYOND 4.0 is similar to the release of a next-gen console, it has new capabilities and wants to capture an audience(for BYOND memberships). Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony have been releasing first party games for years. Can you even imagine a world without Mario?
First party games get developers excited by showing off the system's capabilities, they also bring in players to the system. So in effect, if the staff collaborated on first party games they would be doing the whole of BYOND a favor and promoting the great and often under utilized system they have here.
Already there are some examples of Pseudo-first party games on BYOND. LRS and Incursion are some, if not the best games on BYOND polish-wise. And they both do cool things that excite developers.
Expanding on the idea, you could develop a series of games for BYOND, an original RPG series is always a good start because it provides BYOND with mascots or similar well recognized characters.
Of course, before all this, Tom should take a well earned vacation.
"But we lack that one game that shows what the standard should be, the so called BYOND Mario."
Yep, I totally agree. | |
The whole idea of BYOND is Creating Your Own Net Dream. Note bold Creating. Wanting the Staff(or anyone else) to create it for you is like asking your teacher to do your homework for you!
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Well it doesnt have to be the staff that makes the game.
There are plenty of very knowledgeable people arround that could drag the max outa BYOND. Oh and Creating, that meens BYOND starts with a C, it's Build ;) | |
It's actually Build, but I nitpick. It's not as if we're telling them what to make. It's more as if whatever they make, we're sure that it will be good enough that we'll enjoy it. And it could set a higher standard for games to come.
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DivineO'peanut wrote:
The whole idea of BYOND is Creating Your Own Net Dream. Note bold Creating. Wanting the Staff(or anyone else) to create it for you is like asking your teacher to do your homework for you! No, it's effective marketing of their system and as EXGuo said, a sets a standard. You can still build your own net dream, the staff is just giving you an example of what can be done. | |
Build your own net dream
building needs a contractor or a boss the "owner" could be that dosn't really involve work | |
Turns out the BYOND devs suck at DM.
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Worldweaver wrote:
DivineO'peanut wrote: If you're the type of person who has no interest in the community, hence what BYOND is "all about", then yes: seeing what the creators made with the program is appealing. However, that is like marketing a MMORPG using a video that isn't caught in the game real-time. Not that it doesn't work, but I was really pissed after being tricked to try WoW! A show-off of the capabilities of BYOND is great, but it's not something the Staff should do, rather the users. Anyway, point is: seeing as BYOND's strongest feature is BYONDing, what I really would like to see in the marketing is seeing what BYONDers made. | |
WW- I think pretty much THE reason Dan and Tom made BYOND into what it is today (instead of just developing their own online game) was because they realised they were too lazy and it was far easier for them to just get other people to make games for them.
NOW GET BACK TO WORK! | |
DivineO'peanut wrote:
Worldweaver wrote: That doesn't make any sense! Your analogy sucks, no offense. And by the way, I do make my own games and you don't or haven't yet, and I run a large community. So your point about it only being appealing to people who have no interest in community is moot. A show-off of the capabilities of BYOND is great, but it's not something the Staff should do, rather the users. Why not? Who knows the capabilities better than the staff? It's done on every single gaming console ever made. And it does work, and it does set a bar that lets other people see what can be achieved. Anyway, point is: seeing as BYOND's strongest feature is BYONDing, what I really would like to see in the marketing is seeing what BYONDers made. It's pretty much all trash. That's why you need someone to set the bar. For example, pretend you are on a sports team. To achieve a great sports program the coach does not say "ok run however many laps you want". The coach sets a goal he'd like you to achieve. | |
"Build your own net dream
building needs a contractor or a boss the "owner" could be that dosn't really involve work" Can you explain what you mean? | |
Worldweaver wrote:
That doesn't make any sense! Your analogy sucks, no offense. And by the way, I do make my own games and you don't or haven't yet, and I run a large community. So your point about it only being appealing to people who have no interest in community is moot. It makes sense, in that I want to see what people actually do with BYOND, other than see how developed its capabilities are. It appeals only to those who have no interest in the community, because they have no interest in living examples of what fellow users of the program made, hence won't be disappointed that the best game a player made is "Mario: The Return of Pikachu". Also, FYI, I had an unpopular board game running for awhile, and it often reached 7-10 players online at once. It isn't that much of an achievement, as those were usually friends or friends-of-friends, but it isn't to say I didn't manage a community! Why not? Who knows the capabilities better than the staff? It's done on every single gaming console ever made. And it does work, and it does set a bar that lets other people The capabilities are worth shit if they come from the Staff, rather than someone using the program. If BYOND would market by showing what the creators of it made, it may tell me a few things: a) the community isn't developed enough to fully utilize BYOND: this is very troublesome, because it means the system is either very hard to use, or is very new, both of which take part of the appeal. b) the community is lacking: if the community didn't create good games, it probably is lacking. c) the system is lacking: if the creators of the program made the games, I may very well think I am being tricked, seeing as only the creators can create those games. If not only they can do it, see poing a), b). And the list goes on. It's pretty much all trash. That's why you need someone to set the bar. For example, pretend you are on a sports team. To achieve a great sports program the coach does not say "ok run however many laps you want". The coach sets a goal he'd like you to achieve. Don't get me wrong: there is nothing wrong in setting the bar. I am against advertising that bar, not creating it. If the coach wants you to achieve that bar, though, you shouldn't try the Olympiad(aka market) until that goal is reached. | |
Elation wrote:
WW- I think pretty much THE reason Dan and Tom made BYOND into what it is today (instead of just developing their own online game) was because they realised they were too lazy and it was far easier for them to just get other people to make games for them. I imagine that it would be harder to create your own working programming language than it is to program a game using an existing one. | |
DivineO'peanut wrote: That is what people do with BYOND! Is Incursion suddenly not indicative of BYOND's capabilities because Lummox JR made it? Why not? Who knows the capabilities better than the staff? It's done on every single gaming console ever made. And it does work, and it does set a bar that lets other people Blah blah That indicates you have a weird way of assessing value. It doesn't say anything about the value of the marketing. Normal people would say, "Wow! You can do that in DM!? Looks awesome I think I'm going to learn to program!" And again you are using a flawed argument. I bet all the gaming devs for consoles go around and say, that Mario Galaxy/Halo/whatever is really awesome but Nintendo/Microsoft/Sony made it so it doesn't mean shit! I mean just because they are showing off what people can achieve when using their system doesn't mean I can actually achieve it! How stupid! It's pretty much all trash. That's why you need someone to set the bar. For example, pretend you are on a sports team. To achieve a great sports program the coach does not say "ok run however many laps you want". The coach sets a goal he'd like you to achieve. The problem with my analogy is that the BYOND staff can be thought of as Players and the Coach. By setting the bar they have to achieve it. | |
You fail to see the point in my argument. What I am saying is, that games created for the sole purpose of advertisement, are not appealing. Why? Because it shows you what the program can do, and not the community, hence how much fun you'll have playing those games, and how hard it'd be to make them. Think about it: if a game is so advanced the staff have to team-up so they can make it, it means games made in this community aren't as good. Incursion is a great example of the capabilities that BYOND has, because it wasn't created for the purpose of showing the power of BYOND, and was created by Lummox as a member of the community(because he created his OND), rather than Lummox as a member of the staff(he created it to show-off what a fully utilized BYOND can do, and not what its community can).
And again you are using a flawed argument. I bet all the gaming devs for consoles go around and say, that Mario Galaxy/Halo/whatever is really awesome but Nintendo/Microsoft/Sony made it so it doesn't mean shit! I mean just because they are showing off what people can achieve when using their system doesn't mean I can actually achieve it! How stupid! Weaver, that is not the case here. BYOND is about the community creating games for the community, not a professional company creating a game to sell to the community. The problem with my analogy is that the BYOND staff can be thought of as Players and the Coach. By setting the bar they have to achieve it. Well said and fully agreed, but we're talking about marketing that goal before the community reaches it. Weaver, it is true that what you say would make an excellent advertisement, but it'd also make a cheaty one. An advertisement, if any, should advertise the average game, otherwise I'd feel cheated and annoyed because there is only one game on BYOND that can do what I saw on the advertisement, and that game required joining of the full Staff to make. | |
Because it shows you what the program can do, and not the community, hence how much fun you'll have playing those games, and how hard it'd be to make them. The problem with your argument is that the community can do anything the program/staff can do. The staff has just as much access to the program as we do and a much smaller talent pool than the whole community. Weaver, that is not the case here. BYOND is about the community creating games for the community, not a professional company creating a game to sell to the community. Actually it is the case. You are arguing that the community can't achieve the things the staff can. That they have some supernatural power to create things that we cannot. And that is flat out not true. An advertisement, if any, should advertise the average game, otherwise I'd feel cheated and annoyed because there is only one game on BYOND that can do what I saw on the advertisement, and that game required joining of the full Staff to make. Yeah let's advertise the boring mediocre crap, because that's how to attract people to something. I bet things attract customers when they don't try to emphasize their good traits. You have no right to be cheated because there are people in this community who are just as good as the staff and anyone can do what the staff did. | |
I am not saying the community can't do these things. I am saying that the community should do these things, and not the staff, because of the reasons I specified earlier.
A thing about marketing is, that it is purely psychological. If I came to this conclusions while being told the advertised game is made by the Staff for that sole purpose, whether true or not, I will not be appealed. Yeah let's advertise the boring mediocre crap, because that's how to attract people to something. I bet things attract customers when they don't try to emphasize their good traits.You have no right to be cheated because there are people in this community who are just as good as the staff and anyone can do what the staff did. Otherwise, we can advertise this superior game, and people trying BYOND would be disappointed because all they see is medicore crap, instead of the superb game they saw at advertisement! As I said, thus is what all the big companies do, and damn do I feel cheated when I find nothing of what I originally expected in the product. Also: you are acting like an asshole by automatically viewing all my arguments as crap before hearing what I have to say. | |
I am not saying the community can't do these things. I am saying that the community should do these things, and not the staff, because of the reasons I specified earlier. The bar hasn't been set, we don't know exactly what 'things' you are talking about because the staff has not demonstrated them to us in a playable game. It's hard to achieve things when you don't know what your are setting out to achieve. Yeah let's advertise the boring mediocre crap, because that's how to attract people to something. I bet things attract customers when they don't try to emphasize their good traits.You have no right to be cheated because there are people in this community who are just as good as the staff and anyone can do what the staff did. Otherwise, we can advertise this superior game, and people trying BYOND would be disappointed because all they see is medicore crap, instead of the superb game they saw at advertisement! No, they will see the superb game and all that other stuff. No reason to feel cheated, you got what you came for, a superb game. Then in the following months you will see other people making superb games because they are inspired by the staff's observation and feel overly compensated. As I said, thus is what all the big companies do, and damn do I feel cheated when I find nothing of what I originally expected in the product. But you will see what you originally expected, there will be the game that was advertised and there will be people making games are similar to the one that was advertised. Also, you paid nothing for this, you have absolutely no right to feel cheated about anything! | |
I think creating a game would be a good idea, though not sure if the guys actually feel like doing so.
I do think BYOND could use a well made and polished game, grouping all BYOND guru's together to create something that shows off what BYOND can do.
Ive noticed myself that the game I made gets so much good responds, and I don't consider it to be the top of what BYOND could do.
We just have alot of low standard games arround, don't get me wrong though there are some good games aswell.
But we lack that one game that shows what the standard should be, the so called BYOND Mario.
If such a project would actually ever get of the ground, I would love to be part of it.