BP: Is advertising/making first party BYOND Games against the spirit of the community? in Off Topic

ID:33884
 
Aug 15 2007, 9:10 am

Poll: Is creating first party BYOND Games against the spirit of the community?

Yes, I believe it is. 22% (7)
No, it is not. 38% (12)
BYOND suddenly has a spirit and principles? 38% (12)

Login to vote.

You might have seen my last entry about first party BYOND games. Divine 'O Peanut and I had an interesting debate over whether it was against the spirit of BYOND(a community based game creation system) to advertise/create first party games even if they might bring in players and developers.

This is essentially a question of principle. So do you agree that as we are community based only community games should be shown? Do you think that setting the bar is a good idea and not against the spirit of the community? Do you think that the creators are not a lot more than users themselves?

Want to see our discussion before you make your decision?
#1 Aug 15 2007, 10:21 am
What a convoluted discussion. Anyway, this is the way I'm seeing it (analogy incoming).

"I'm John Johnson, 10-year professional bodybuilder, here to tell YOU that with my new Summer Flex Guide, you too could have the body you've always dreamed of having! It worked for me, and it can work for you too!"

Sure, maybe John Johnson in the example might have success with his program, but he's the one who refined it in the first place. That doesn't tell me much.

If Byond is supposed to appear to be very easy to learn and work with, then the best way to advertise that would be to show off games that other people have made because they found the program easy. That's the entire point behind testimonials in many television commercials; weight loss ones like Jenny Craig being a very good example. "I'm Martha McGartha and I lost 15 pounds on the Nutrisystem diet!" Just having a doctor in a white coat saying something will work isn't enough. People will want to know it already works before they bother.
#2 Aug 15 2007, 10:26 am
Sarm wrote:
What a convoluted discussion. Anyway, this is the way I'm seeing it (analogy incoming).

"I'm John Johnson, 10-year professional bodybuilder, here to tell YOU that with my new Summer Flex Guide, you too could have the body you've always dreamed of having! It worked for me, and it can work for you too!"

Sure, maybe John Johnson in the example might have success with his program, but he's the one who refined it in the first place. That doesn't tell me much.

If Byond is supposed to appear to be very easy to learn and work with, then the best way to advertise that would be to show off games that other people have made because they found the program easy. That's the entire point behind testimonials in many television commercials; weight loss ones like Jenny Craig being a very good example. "I'm Martha McGartha and I lost 15 pounds on the Nutrisystem diet!" Just having a doctor in a white coat saying something will work isn't enough. People will want to know it already works before they bother.

Oh, so working with your analogy you're proposing we get those people who are like "I was not paid to say that I lost 300 lb on the Jenny Craig diet!"


I don't think it makes a difference.


Besides, the best/closest thing to this is not a weight loss program, it is the fact that console makers have been developing first party games for years. And they do help bring in new players and developers, its proven.
#3 Aug 15 2007, 10:55 am
Worldweaver wrote:
Oh, so working with your analogy you're proposing we get those people who are like "I was not paid to say that I lost 300 lb on the Jenny Craig diet!"


I don't think it makes a difference.

Maybe the analogy was pretty bad but I still think you completely missed my point, for you to bring up actors being paid when my post was all about people trying to relate to others like them instead of spokespeople. I get the feeling that you just wrote off everything I said with that comment.


Besides, the best/closest thing to this is not a weight loss program, it is the fact that console makers have been developing first party games for years. And they do help bring in new players and developers, its proven.

But console makers have been developing their games to be sold for profit. Of course, some people will find a passion for wanting to make their own games. Some will give it a passing thought. Others won't give a damn. But the games aren't being made for the mass population to start creating their own. Isn't that what Byond is trying to "sell" through advertising, that with their program the "customer" could easily make games as well as play them?
#4 Aug 15 2007, 11:46 am
Actually I did miss the point, but I went back a re-read it. The analogy is flawed because the Staff doesn't have anything that normal people don't have. It's more like an acquaintance telling you about how they lost all this weight. Not a professional body builder.


I still don't understand what you meant by that comment below. An even better example is Microsoft and the Xbox360's market place. Anyone can make their own games, and that draws in customers but what really draws in people is their first party game Halo. After buying this game and an Xbox they may decide to create their own using XNA.
#5 Aug 15 2007, 12:09 pm
Erm. I accidentally voted "No, it is not", when, from what you see in our discussion, I am obviously "Yes, it is", so like, don't mind that.

Oh, and that means 4-3 sucka!
#6 Aug 15 2007, 12:17 pm
The staff does have one thing that normal people don't have, though. Extensive experience with the program. :P

I've never made any libraries or games. I did spend a couple of afternoons toying around with Dream Maker, though, and if it weren't for my short attention span I think I might have been able to come up with something playable. I remember getting my PC to shoot a projectile with a verb, and then figuring out how to make the projectile turn around and go the other way. Then I got it to delete itself if it crashed into a wall a second time. Then I made it so that the projectile would leave behind a sparkly trail for a second after it passed over non-dense turf.

Then I darkened everything and made my character give off small luminosity. I made a door. Then I made a candle that made the light around it flicker. It was really neat, and I had a lot of fun with it. Then I messed something up and when I shot a wall with a projectile, every single wall on the screen shot back at me and I died, and I left my little project alone after that. :P

Anyway, what I'm trying to get at by talking about that is that I thought it was pretty fun and (when following tutorials) simple enough to screw around in Dream Maker. I think that kind of meaning would be lost if you had a giant developer-created game dropped into someone's lap. It might be a great game and draw in people just to play it, but it might also give off a message of "Well, he's already a programmer".



I've never heard anything about XNA before, so I can't make any decent comment on that. :(
#7 Aug 15 2007, 12:25 pm
Given the experience differential between BYOND staff and most BYOND users I would say pro bodybuilder v. flabby telewatcher is pretty good.

But really, what is even the point of this discussion? BYOND staff (volunteers, mind you) have their hands full as it is developing the core product and moderating the user base. Some have produced some good stuff as well (see Deadron and LummoxJR's work, for example). So what's the issue? BYOND doesn't have the resources of Microsoft or Sony, so don't expect the same path to work. When you have maybe a half dozen guys operating on an almost non-existent budget, you can't just drop everything and pump out some big budget games.
#8 Aug 15 2007, 12:37 pm
DivineO'peanut wrote:
Erm. I accidentally voted "No, it is not", when, from what you see in our discussion, I am obviously "Yes, it is", so like, don't mind that.

Oh, and that means 4-3 sucka!

Actually um, the 'BYOND has principles?' counts for me. Because that means they don't think there are any principles for it to go against.
#9 Aug 15 2007, 12:39 pm
Jmurph wrote:
Given the experience differential between BYOND staff and most BYOND users I would say pro bodybuilder v. flabby telewatcher is pretty good.


Haha =D
But really, what is even the point of this discussion? BYOND staff (volunteers, mind you) have their hands full as it is developing the core product and moderating the user base. Some have produced some good stuff as well (see Deadron and LummoxJR's work, for example). So what's the issue? BYOND doesn't have the resources of Microsoft or Sony, so don't expect the same path to work. When you have maybe a half dozen guys operating on an almost non-existent budget, you can't just drop everything and pump out some big budget games.


We're just having fun with an idea. =) I don't think anything on BYOND could be called 'Big Budget' though. It doesn't cost any money.
#10 Aug 15 2007, 1:51 pm
Yeah but you can still sink lots of time into a project...and as you know time is money.