Programming Levels in Off Topic

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ID:277535
 
Jul 2 2007, 11:21 am (Edited on Jul 2 2007, 11:31 am)
Lummox JR made a post a while back on programming levels in ID:312975

I think I pass as an intermediate programmer, but I was wondering what would be between intermediate and advanced. What he said for advanced was,

# Programs robustly.

All the time, I never abuse usr the colon operator or goto, I use bitflags and datums where appropriate.

# Almost always chooses good design methods.

I try to, I consult others when I think mine is flawed or there may be better ones, like with loading a .dmp file at runtime.

# Can optimize code (at least somewhat).

I use bitflags and datums alot. I try not to make too many variables, I take advantage of the short circuit properties of || and && in if() statements.

# Knows many pitfalls and workarounds for them.

I'm not sure about this one, can you please explain better.

# Uses all available reference materials as needed.

I've mesmerized every proc in the DM reference and know it like the back of my hand. I also consult the forum and google when I am stumped.

# Can develop new algorithms based on old ones or the underlying theory. (E.g., an advanced programmer could figure out from scratch how to do 47-state autojoining turfs, though it might take them a while.)

That I am not at that level yet, it is very hard for me to do autojoining with BYOND's directional system.

So, what would be the requirements for a "decent" programmer or something between the lines of intermediate and advanced.
#1 Jul 2 2007, 11:34 am
Xx Dark Wizard xX wrote:
Lummox JR made a post a while back on programming levels in ID:312975

I think I pass as an intermediate programmer, but I was wondering what would be between intermediate and advanced.

Also in that thread I said repeatedly that many people who think they're intermediate, aren't. You're at the internewbiate level, which is roughly the target audience for my Dream Tutor columns. Not quite intermediate, but able to grasp intermediate concepts that get introduced.

# Knows many pitfalls and workarounds for them.

I'm not sure about this one, can you please explain better.

Every programming language or development environment has its little quirks, things you need to watch out for.

So, what would be the requirements for a "decent" programmer or something between the lines of intermediate and advanced.

Moot.

Lummox JR
#2 Jul 2 2007, 11:39 am
Well if you're intermediate, I must be a complete newbie..0_0 I'm thinking you're upper intermediate.. I'm thinking you'd need a more than decent understanding of DM and of course maybe some advanced math knowledge to make something like your DMP saver. But then again thats just me, and more than likely Lummox can guage your level wayyy better than I can. I have yet to even learn datums, bitflags, or the best way to optimize your code proc-wise(as in which is faster and etc) besides the obvious minor ones(!if.blah) or something.
#3 Jul 2 2007, 11:44 am
In response to Lummox JR (#1)
I've read all of your articles at least twice, I think they have helped me a bit, I do understand all the concepts, I've had a little trouble with the sound one and should read that again. I'm guessing you think I am at the level I am because I have yet to release anything useful to the community besides my DMP saver, and I don't show anything advanced on the forums besides sorting a list. What if I made a proc that loaded a DMP at runtime would that boost my level. Because I really don't agree with your judgement, sorry.
#4 Jul 2 2007, 11:51 am
I'm a level 5 programmer. I already have by level 5 code blast spell!

Really, what does it mater? Do you need to rate yourself? Are you better because you can say "This is how I compare to others"?
#5 Jul 2 2007, 11:52 am
In response to Danial.Beta (#4)
Because I want to see where I am at with all time I have spent doing BYOND programming.
#6 Jul 2 2007, 11:54 am
In response to Xx Dark Wizard xX (#5)
Well, should what you have made be the answer to that question? I'm happy with what little I have created for BYOND. Granted, I'm certain I don't fall high on the scale, but I don't care.
#7 Jul 2 2007, 12:26 pm
In response to Mecha Destroyer JD (#2)
Mecha Destroyer JD wrote:
Well if you're intermediate, I must be a complete newbie..0_0 I'm thinking you're upper intermediate.. I'm thinking you'd need a more than decent understanding of DM and of course maybe some advanced math knowledge to make something like your DMP saver.


I thought I was too :/. A DMP saver isn't that hard, making a DMP loader is the hard part.
#8 Jul 2 2007, 12:30 pm
In response to Xx Dark Wizard xX (#3)
Xx Dark Wizard xX wrote:
I've read all of your articles at least twice, I think they have helped me a bit, I do understand all the concepts, I've had a little trouble with the sound one and should read that again. I'm guessing you think I am at the level I am because I have yet to release anything useful to the community besides my DMP saver, and I don't show anything advanced on the forums besides sorting a list. What if I made a proc that loaded a DMP at runtime would that boost my level. Because I really don't agree with your judgement, sorry.

I don't know that the DMP saver has actually undergone any significant testing, either. (And out of curiosity, can it actually handle more than 52 unique turf types?)

But I'm sticking with "internewbiate" based on my ongoing evaluation of your code as seen in the forums. I'd love to see more work to challenge that assessment, though.

Lummox JR
#9 Jul 2 2007, 12:31 pm
In response to Mecha Destroyer JD (#2)
Mecha Destroyer JD wrote:
Well if you're intermediate, I must be a complete newbie..0_0

Bingo.
#10 Jul 2 2007, 12:34 pm
In response to Lummox JR (#9)
Lummox JR wrote:
Mecha Destroyer JD wrote:
Well if you're intermediate, I must be a complete newbie..0_0

Bingo.

I think that you whole post (I decided to read the whole thing) was really good.

I think I am on the border betwix newbie and intermediate in general programming (the parts that do not rely on a specific language or is used in most languages).
#11 Jul 2 2007, 12:34 pm (Edited on Jul 2 2007, 12:41 pm)
In response to Lummox JR (#8)
Yes it can, it can handle 52^3 unique map cells. I guess I will provide my best code in the forums and help out newbies, I just have a problem helping out people will no will to learn and they are the ones asking difficult questions. I posted about the program in ID:557572. It is also faster in my testings that gazoot's, Iain's and popisfizzy's implementation of DMP saving. I also need to fix a bug I made cause I was really rushing this.
#12 Jul 2 2007, 1:44 pm
In response to Lummox JR (#9)
Lummox JR wrote:
Mecha Destroyer JD wrote:
Well if you're intermediate, I must be a complete newbie..0_0

Bingo.

If I'm a complete newbie, what does that make rippers? XD
#13 Jul 2 2007, 1:46 pm
In response to Mecha Destroyer JD (#12)
Mecha Destroyer JD wrote:
Lummox JR wrote:
Mecha Destroyer JD wrote:
Well if you're intermediate, I must be a complete newbie..0_0

Bingo.

If I'm a complete newbie, what does that make rippers? XD

Not programmers?
#14 Jul 2 2007, 2:11 pm
In response to Mecha Destroyer JD (#12)
Mecha Destroyer JD wrote:
Lummox JR wrote:
Mecha Destroyer JD wrote:
Well if you're intermediate, I must be a complete newbie..0_0

Bingo.

If I'm a complete newbie, what does that make rippers? XD

Insolent boobs.
#15 Jul 2 2007, 6:08 pm
I'm currently on level 8-4. I sure hope the bug is in this castle, I'm sick of running around chasing it.
#16 Jul 2 2007, 8:48 pm
# Knows many pitfalls and workarounds for them.

I'm not sure about this one, can you please explain better.

It means you know the bugs, problems, and limitations of the internals of a language especially, and how to accomplish the same results while avoiding the problems.
#17 Jul 3 2007, 6:20 am
In response to Shlaklava (#10)
Shlaklava wrote:
I think I am on the border betwix newbie and intermediate in general programming (the parts that do not rely on a specific language or is used in most languages).

I think most newbie programmers just don't want to admit that they're newbie programmers. :)
#18 Jul 3 2007, 6:26 am
In response to Smoko (#15)
ToadStool: "I'm sorry, but your bug is in another castle."
#19 Jul 3 2007, 9:15 am
I'm going to go with the others on this- life isn't an RPG (as much as most exam-pushing education boards wouldn't like to admit).
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