A bit disappointed. in Off Topic

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ID:742049
 
May 13 2012, 8:14 am
I haven't been very active since March. I drop in during mid-May to see nothing has really changed. I have been combing the forums to see of new releases just to find your average Pokemon games and smaller games that will only be played for a month or two, if that.

There's nothing wrong with smaller games. I'm not exactly saying "HAI MAEK MOAR AR PEE GEES" or any of the such, but it's a bit disappointing to see the same old thing:

-People arguing over BYOND's moderator staff
-Polls on which crappy anime game I should make
-Arguments about which crappy anime game is the best
-Posts about games that will never be finished
-Etc

I expected more of you, BYOND. Much more...
#1 May 13 2012, 8:31 am
This will never stop, trust me.

For moderating team, hold Democratic elections so people never complain?(That's just an idea that came in my mind)
#2 May 13 2012, 8:35 am
The moderating team is doing a great job ;)
#3 May 13 2012, 8:39 am
Hi Yusuke, it's good to see you again, I'm afraid i've been lacking in responsibility with Byond and been even more inactive than you, and i shall soon be stripped of my moderation privileges!, Well that's the plan :P.

I understand your worry Yusuke :) it visually seems pretty quiet at the moment in terms of anything new, and arguments seem to be the the popular thing at the moment. :(

#4 May 13 2012, 8:44 am
Have you considered that the forums aren't much of a social place anymore so people aren't on the forums but rather programming and playing games. Needless to mention there are several great games in the works; Spirit Age and Faction Wars just to name two!

I recently started a pretty unique and big project that Demmy will be helping out with(same person who helped out with Feed). Sometimes you gotta look behind the curtains.
#5 May 13 2012, 8:56 am
Yes you gotta think there might be lots of non members who now can't have hubs, Who are making amazing games that we will never see :O

Unless they can afford a membership, and since posts get locked and comments get deleted all the time now, much of what we say wont be seen, The community's developer only now :) so meh :P and a lot of people can't afford the new membership price to have a hub, and also it's not really so interesting to have a membership any more due to removing the perks :)

But Hopefully there's plenty of games being worked on somewhere, and i'm still really looking forward to Spirit Age.
#6 May 13 2012, 8:58 am
In response to A2J2TIWARI (#1)
A2J2TIWARI wrote:
This will never stop, trust me.

For moderating team, hold Democratic elections so people never complain?(That's just an idea that came in my mind)

There will be people that complain about the moderators no matter how they are selected.
#7 May 13 2012, 10:52 am
I think alot of people that frequent the site view byond as "the place to go to play pokemon/anime" rips atm. It's kinda' difficult to get anyone's interest in anything that's new or original unless it's based on some sort of already established IP, or you just know the right people. (Which seems to be the problem I have, both fronts) but if you'd like to check out my game you're more than welcome.

It's a completely original ninja game. I started the project for various reasons but my main reason was I wanted to show people that a game doesn't have to be based off Naruto to be fun and interesting.

It's still under construction.
Dance Of Shadows
#8 May 13 2012, 11:11 am
Yusuke13 wrote:
I haven't been very active since March. I drop in during mid-May to see nothing has really changed.

It wasn't impressive in March so I'm not sure what you expected =)

Bravo1 is working on a new version of Tanx and Epic by Yut Put is pretty good (and not just for a BYOND game, it's actually fun).

The moderating team is doing a great job ;)

The root of the problem seems to be the change to the forums. The old tree structure kept things fairly well organized - people could have a slightly off-topic discussion within another thread without it getting in the way. Now that everything is shown as a single thread, to keep things organized the moderators have to delete anything that doesn't fit perfectly.
#9 May 13 2012, 11:45 am
In response to Kumorii (#4)
Kumorii wrote:
Needless to mention there are several great games in the works; Spirit Age and Faction Wars just to name two!

These games were already in the works when I left.

I was just saying that I expected to come back after 2 months of being away and see something finished. Or at least, I would like to see more great games such as these being in the works.

I see nothing. I am disappoint.

#10 May 13 2012, 11:46 am
We aren't professionals being paid to do this. What do you expect? T.T
#11 May 13 2012, 11:53 am
In response to Complex Robot (#10)
Complex Robot wrote:
We aren't professionals being paid to do this. What do you expect? T.T

Agreed. Even professional games take months and years to be created sometimes. I think alot of what people do is amazing here for solo projects and one man teams usually.

But if you want something new and different it's going to take more time.
#12 May 13 2012, 12:15 pm (Edited on May 13 2012, 12:25 pm)
Yusuke13 wrote:
I expected more of you, BYOND. Much more...

Why? In the past five years has the BYOND community as a whole given you the impression that they're here to do more than feed on internet drama? Has the community produced a hit game once every few months? Once a year?

The "BYOND I am disappoint" line is just as useless (and as overdone) as everything else that gets posted around here.

The BYOND software is headed in a direction that will open up all sorts of possibilities, and all that the BYOND community seems to be able to do is sit around rehashing the same conversations that they've been having for the past decade.

It's not a matter of being disappointed in that reality, it's a matter of accepting the situation for what it is and either working to change it or bowing out. Sitting on the sidelines complaining isn't going to accomplish anything.
#13 May 13 2012, 12:32 pm
In response to Silk Games (#12)
Silk Games wrote:
Yusuke13 wrote:
I expected more of you, BYOND. Much more...

Why? In the past five years has the BYOND community as a whole given you the impression that they're here to do more than feed on internet drama? Has the community produced a hit game once every few months? Once a year?

The "BYOND I am disappoint" line is just as useless (and as overdone) as everything else that gets posted around here.

The BYOND software is headed in a direction that will open up all sorts of possibilities, and all that the BYOND community seems to be able to do is sit around rehashing the same conversations that they've been having for the past decade.

It's not a matter of being disappointed in that reality, it's a matter of accepting the situation for what it is and either working to change it or bowing out. Sitting on the sidelines complaining isn't going to accomplish anything.

I agree with 95% of this. However the people that actually try to do constructive things on this site are usually ostracized and singled out or trolled. That's been my past experiences. I came here knowing a bit how things worked and pretty much any step I took was met with animosity.. and not just from the regular old passerby.

Alot of it came from site moderators,etc. How do you propose that gets fixed?
#14 May 13 2012, 12:51 pm
In response to Dariuc (#13)
Dariuc wrote:
I agree with 95% of this. However the people that actually try to do constructive things on this site are usually ostracized and singled out or trolled. That's been my past experiences. I came here knowing a bit how things worked and pretty much any step I took was met with animosity.. and not just from the regular old passerby.

Alot of it came from site moderators,etc. How do you propose that gets fixed?


That's a good question. My answer is that a determined developer needs to learn how to ignore it and rise above it.

I was ostracized and trolled throughout all of NEStalgia's development. I had people actively working to ensure my failure through spreading lies/spam/etc, other "developers" who took joy in predicting that I would fail, and plenty of haters taunting me when the game didn't appear to be successful at first. By ignoring it and doing what I needed to do (make a great game), I eventually silenced all of them.

Ignoring that kind of vitriol is hard, but the unfortunate reality is that BYOND is really just an exaggerated version of how the real world works in that regard. The more motivated or successful you are, the more backlash that you'll receive from jealous bystanders. It's very easy to get caught up in the drama and lose focus... and the only way to get through it is to fully believe that what you are working on is good, and that you are capable of finishing it.

On the moderation issue: The moderators now are certainly overactive, but they don't seem malicious like certain moderators have been in the past (Alathon/Digitalmouse). Sure, it's annoying to be micro-managed like that, but at the end of the day you have to remember that nothing that gets posted on these forums matters anyway. I'd recommend avoiding the forums as much as possible except to seek answers on the code problems board, or to make bug reports/feature requests.

In a perfect world you'd be greeted with optimism and support from the community and the moderators would be more worried about stomping out trolls than editing a post to be 100% on topic. Unfortunately that's not the case, so you have to weigh the pros with the cons in determining whether or not this is something that you want to do. I'd say that the reward is well worth the struggle, but only if you're willing to put in the work.
#15 May 13 2012, 12:53 pm
All very good advice which I will take to heart and follow. Thanks for sharing.
#16 May 13 2012, 2:34 pm
Game development is hit and miss. Even in better communities than our own, you see projects get started and then you never hear about them again.

TBH I think the site has gotten less disappointing. Like FA said, Epic is really good and is BYOND's best real-time RPG. It seems like WANO found a programmer ( finally ) and his game is coming along as well as Spirit Age.

I do think the mod complaints were unnecessary though. If you're going to complain, at least make the complaints funny. Like back when everyone was accusing the moderators of being on the "Silk Wizard bandwagon". Now THAT was entertaining.
#17 May 13 2012, 2:55 pm
Still working on a networking engine here for BYOND. When at least the first phase is ready, I'll make it a more public demonstration in what is to come with the networking engine I'm developing.

Here are the following phases or even modes planned:

Phase 1 - DM/BYOND Mode (Uses what BYOND is naturally capable of.)
Phase 2 - Sockets Mode (Uses BYOND capabilities and socket capabilities provided by a C++ DLL/SO file.)

Currently, Phase 1 is being produced in order to allow utilization of BYOND's capabilities to handle the networking. True that BYOND itself comes with networking, but thought I could extend upon that. When Phase 2 commences, it should be able to perform very quickly and use custom sockets instead of built-in networking capabilities of BYOND. Of course that phase will not be constructed yet. More will come as more progress is made into Phase 1.
#18 May 13 2012, 6:06 pm
In response to EmpirezTeam (#16)
EmpirezTeam wrote:
TBH I think the site has gotten less disappointing. Like FA said, Epic is really good and is BYOND's best real-time RPG. It seems like WANO found a programmer ( finally ) and his game is coming along as well as Spirit Age.

I don't have much faith in any game that's been in development for a long time and it's still not clear what the gameplay will be like. There are a lot of games with some nice graphics but that's it - they look nice but they don't look fun. It's expected that most projects won't be completed but in most cases it wouldn't have made a difference.

It is nice to finally see games that run at a higher framerate than 10 fps. I don't think it's a coincidence that the better games have better framerates.
#19 May 13 2012, 6:49 pm
It's been in development for a long time because of the community we have, not because the game doesn't have potential. If we had a lot of serious committed programmers here, WANO's project would probably be near completed if not finished.
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