Suggestion for 4.0 while you re'write the blue book/DM rs in BYOND Discussion

ID:134201
 
Feb 27 2007, 12:07 pm
When 4.0 comes out, it would be great if you re'write the DM Guid,and DM rs to be more user friendly (writing complete examples, and putting subjects that are meant to be used together, on the same page, opposed to giving every single thing a diff page. Example: the Stat(),and the statpanel() should be descibed on the same paged,not two different pages,as well as haveing a propper example).

Note: I used the term subject, because I'm not reffering to just (), but anything that is meant to be/most commonly used together.

Because the way It's written now, it confuses you almost as much as it teaches you. How can I learn how to propperly use something, if you only display a partial example,which results in two possibilities: (1) You have no idea why on earth you can't figure out what's wrong/why it wont work, or (2)You are aware of the way the Blue Book/DM rs is written, and you end up jumping around 5 different pages to piece togetter how to use it.
#1 Feb 27 2007, 12:17 pm
Statpanels are so basic they don't really need all that info. The DM guide is actually pretty in depth compared to some C++/C# books I have read. But I believe they will expand the DM guide when 4.0 does get released, there will be alot of stuff they need covered and with BYOND getting larger they probably will make a decent profit.
#2 Feb 27 2007, 12:18 pm
Zoltor wrote:
When 4.0 comes out, it would be great if you re'write the DM Guid,and DM rs to be more user friendly (writing complete examples, and putting subjects that are meant to be used together, on the same page, opposed to giving every single thing a diff page. Example: the Stat(),and the statpanel() should be descibed on the same paged,not two different pages,as well as haveing a propper example).

Some of the functionality will change in 4.0 anyway, but you'll notice there hasn't been a major Blue Book update in quite a while even though some changes have been made to the language itself. Updating the book for 4.0 is simply not feasible because there's just no manpower to do it.

Because the way It's written now, it confuses you almost as much as it teaches you. How can I learn how to propperly use something, if you only display a partial example,which results in two possibilities: (1) You have no idea why on earth you can't figure out what's wrong/why it wont work, or (2)You are aware of the way the Blue Book/DM rs is written, and you end up jumping around 5 different pages to piece togetter how to use it.

Lots of people have had no trouble learning from the guide as-is, so I really don't think the writing style is the problem.

Lummox JR
#3 Feb 27 2007, 12:30 pm
In response to Xx Dark Wizard xX (#1)
Xx Dark Wizard xX wrote:
Statpanels are so basic they don't really need all that info. The DM guide is actually pretty in depth compared to some C++/C# books I have read. But I believe they will expand the DM guide when 4.0 does get released, there will be alot of stuff they need covered and with BYOND getting larger they probably will make a decent profit.

Yea, I know, that's why I was irritated,to get stuck on something so simple, not even because I didn't understand it, or made a stupid typo, but because I wasn't given the propper concept of the subject/code.

I don't know C++/C# so I'll need to take your word on that(ouch)

Yea, there will be so many changes with 4.0, I'm sure they'll sell a new Blue Book.
#4 Feb 27 2007, 12:35 pm
In response to Zoltor (#3)
I thought they were going to expand it. :(
#5 Feb 27 2007, 12:45 pm
In response to Lummox JR (#2)
I can help, seriously. I can give some sweet little examples and information about the things I know. I'd like to see this stuff updated as well.

I'd also like to see what built-in procedures call what other built-in procedures and in what order. This would help us override and debug these procedures to suit what we'd like to do.
#6 Feb 27 2007, 12:46 pm
In response to Xx Dark Wizard xX (#4)
Xx Dark Wizard xX wrote:
I thought they were going to expand it. :(

Well that's a giving, they need to, but some stuff already in the Blue Book, from what I heard will no longer be usable, so they'll need to edit/fix stuff as well. So I figure since they need to re'write alot of the book anyway, they might as well tweak certian things, to make it less confuseing.
#7 Feb 27 2007, 12:49 pm
In response to Zoltor (#6)
Maybe it could be a community thing, we could start a wiki with all the chapters and developers can contribute.
#8 Feb 27 2007, 12:50 pm
In response to Xx Dark Wizard xX (#7)
Xx Dark Wizard xX wrote:
Maybe it could be a community thing, we could start a wiki with all the chapters and developers can contribute.

That would be a cool idea.
#9 Feb 27 2007, 12:55 pm
In response to Zoltor (#8)
#10 Feb 27 2007, 12:56 pm
In response to Xx Dark Wizard xX (#9)
Xx Dark Wizard xX wrote:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/BYOND_Blue_Book

That was fast, did you just make that right now lol?
#11 Feb 27 2007, 12:57 pm
In response to Zoltor (#10)
Zoltor wrote:
Xx Dark Wizard xX wrote:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/BYOND_Blue_Book

That was fast, did you just make that right now lol?

Yeah.
#12 Feb 27 2007, 12:57 pm
In response to Xx Dark Wizard xX (#11)
Xx Dark Wizard xX wrote:
Zoltor wrote:
Xx Dark Wizard xX wrote:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/BYOND_Blue_Book

That was fast, did you just make that right now lol?

Yeah.

Lol awesome
#13 Feb 27 2007, 1:47 pm
In response to Xx Dark Wizard xX (#9)
Xx Dark Wizard xX wrote:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/BYOND_Blue_Book

That won't do much good because it's not restricted to editing by only BYOND developers, and because the Blue Book's text is in TeX format that won't be readily converted to something else. We could copy what we have of the HTML for the guide now, but then there's still the problem of figuring out what needs to be updated and doing so appropriately.

Lummox JR
#14 Feb 27 2007, 3:45 pm
In response to Lummox JR (#13)
If anyone did update the guide and it was in a proper state for release, I wouldn't mind spending the time to convert it to the Tex format properly.
#15 Feb 28 2007, 7:02 am
Eh, your reasoning here is bogus. The DM Reference (uhh, "DM rs"?) perfectly has a see-also field that connects things such as stat(), statpanel() and Stat(), it's your fault if you're too blind to notice that, not the reference's. You couldn't get statpanels working and you blamed it on the reference, which also does BTW have a proper example and documentation of [statpanels] which you clearly did not follow in your other topic...not to mention you don't seem to have enough basic knowledge to begin tackling these things anyway.