ID:2792022
 
BYOND devs have always been jealous of the natural appeal of fangames. Fangames promote themselves if they're made with passion. Since most of BYOND devs lacked the real talent to generate genuine interests in their "original" projects they have spent more than 2 decades policing the fangame community, which eventually abandoned BYOND and led directly to its decline. A laymen could've observed this over the years!

Most successful games on BYOND were not original. Naruto GOA, Duel Monsters Unlimited, Bleach Las Noches. The only original game that really ever made it here is SS13 and that's more of an ironic game than anything. I don't suggest anyone engage with BYOND vets on the "original content" ideologies they've pushed for years to justify their contempt for the natural appeal of fangames.

Fangames were a important part of BYOND's early success. You marginalized them when they were no longer convenient. And for years we heard about existential legal threats if they didn't raze the platform of fangames. BYOND never faced a direct threat to shut down the service, arrest ownership and castrate them like they said would happen if they didn't derank (and eventually censor) fangames. It didn't happen. You were never justified in how you treated fangame devs.

BYOND used to be great. It came around when most of us were still new to online games. It filled a niche for sure, but it's not the advancement of technology that left BYOND in the dustbin of history. It's the rigid mindset of its ownership. You are bitter ideologues, not passionate game developers. And you ruined a great thing.

Collectively, it's your fault this platform failed and that's why you can barely raise $2k/mo.

Thanks for reading.
Be careful with misinformation man, they took my kids over a post.

tl-dr; BYOND is for game making. Make your own anime inspired story that's original.
You elitists actually represent a small minority of the userbase. You're just the loudest but your voice was never the one that counted.
In response to Razeth
I think it's dumb that roblox can monetize the IP of others, along with every phone-app marketplace, along with select steam games and kongregate, newgrounds, and every other site on the internet, except BYOND.

BUTT, You can still find fangames via the pager and/or via a quick google.

Also, yo mama.
In response to Kozuma3
Don't complain about it now. What part of You Are The Problem can you not comprehend?
In response to Razeth
Razeth wrote:
What part of You Are The Problem can you not comprehend?

The anti-fangame bias is a delusion.

The BYOND fangame community brought their delisting on themselves by being a toxic cesspit of narcissistic but mediocre developers who took every opportunity to sabotage one another and submit fake C&Ds and takedown requests over and over again. Had that community just been interested in the work of gamedev and community building, everything that happened would have gone completely differently.

Real discussion for how to market a fangame project has been had over and over again in this community. It has been ignored, largely because the people who are involved in that community are allergic to the work. Those who did the work ran their communities successfully. Those who did not do the work disappeared into obscurity.

There have been really good fangames built on this platform. The majority of the bitching doesn't come from the people involved in that labor.

Also, welcome back. The community's largely grown up. You might start putting a good foot forward. Coming in with a chip on your shoulder probably isn't gonna result in a positive experience.

You do bring forward some nuggets of truth. The problem is that a lot of your logic is self-defeating, and you've ignored quite a lot of the bigger picture because it doesn't suit your narrative.
Fangames were really ahead of the curve on microtransactions with those 10 cent powerlevel boosts.
The problem with fangames wasn't that they were derivatives of some existing IP, but as Ter said, they were derivatives of each other. There were and probably are great fan games on this platform, but they ultimately got buried because GameKing69 used the source code leaked in 2004 to release the same game as LaserBlast420 but he added Christmas decorations, candy cane swords, and a rape verb and accompanying animation (This actually happened, names were changed because I can't be bothered to remember the names of two Bleach PVP game with epic punching bag punching mechanic game owners.)

That being said, I do think there is a greater community for the fan games that exist on BYOND, problem is those people mostly left because the players of those games are actually insane, groomers, scammers, Federal Bureau of Investigation employees, and Carl. Carl is pretty cool, but playing a weird game with Carl is not worth getting groomed by a soundcloud rapper.
In response to Docky
Docky wrote:
but he added Christmas decorations, candy cane swords, and a rape verb and accompanying animation.

GameKing69 sounds like a visionary.
In response to Docky
Docky wrote:
GameKing69 used the source code leaked in 2004 to release the same game as LaserBlast420

As crazy as it sounds, neither one of those keys are in use.
In response to Ter13
Ter13 wrote:
The anti-fangame bias is a delusion.

The BYOND fangame community brought their delisting on themselves by being a toxic cesspit of narcissistic but mediocre developers who took every opportunity to sabotage one another and submit fake C&Ds and takedown requests over and over again. Had that community just been interested in the work of gamedev and community building, everything that happened would have gone completely differently.

Real discussion for how to market a fangame project has been had over and over again in this community. It has been ignored, largely because the people who are involved in that community are allergic to the work. Those who did the work ran their communities successfully. Those who did not do the work disappeared into obscurity.

Weren't some of the C&Ds real? I vaguely remember Funimation getting involved years and years ago. Though with how copyright law works, someone spamming their contact emails with reports about a specific knockoff game basically forces them to have a duty to protect their IP.

That being said, you're entirely right. I spent my middle school years and freshman year of HS in the anime side of the site and the toxicity turned me against most of the community more than my interest in anime fading. I still remember a dude sending threats and spamming shock videos in 2005 or so because we would not give him the code/source for the improvements we made to make the game better for RP/progression and less a punch-bag spamfest.

And that's just the game I was a contributor on. Other games, like a YYH game I played pretty religiously for a few months had the exact same issues.

Once I went over to primarily playing rpgs on the platform, that toxicity became nonexistant overnight.

e: Personally I have no problem with anime games, build the game **you** want to make. But if you just want a source so you can change the title and the admin list and have your own petty fiefdom where you can admin-hack all your stats, then you suck and I won't pretend otherwise.
Fan games aren't bad, problem becomes when you use stolen art(IE rip it directly from Dragon Ball Z: Legacy of Goku) and then try to make money on said game.
Hey everyone, coming into this nearly but not quite dead forum post to throw a few cents in. First off hi, raffile, been around byond since 07? Definitely came to play some Pokemon game at the time while I was at school. Even learned how to program in my youth off some random leaked source (I'll tell you this helped me a lot instant results allowed me to do things then understand, will also tell you I learned a lot of bad habits that way most of which I've grew out of)

I loved byonds fan games but a lot of the statements above ring true. The communities of the past in these games and the constant barely even edited sources of the same games where killing the community.

I have used source codes before, yes (some people might read this and be like "hey didn't you run a game that was a source code of (insert yadda yadda)) but I've always tried to put a lot of work into them if I did since it had my name on them.

You know what really sucks when you do it like that? People refusing to see the countless hours of code you've put into it to make it actually different.

This sucked as a developer so eventually I started building all my games from scratch *shrugs* this is definitely harder but you get more respect.

The anime community died because of their own doing. The communities of their games and the fact that no game developer wanted to put in more work.

You want to change that and bring it back to life?

Do something about it. A forum post talking about how the rest of the community killed it (btw from what I see byond is striving doing pretty good on indiedbs stats for example and plenty of games with commercial ventures) fix it.

Learning DM gave me a basic understanding of programming that I turned around and used to learn several other programming languages. Art is always needed. So on.

Pretty sure ter13 still has a lot of useful resources on the forums he indirectly helped me a lot

My closing statement

A closed mouth don't get fed and a hand at rest doesn't do work

*Peace sign*
In response to Raffile
"You know what really sucks when you do it like that? People refusing to see the countless hours of code you've put into it to make it actually different.

This sucked as a developer so eventually I started building all my games from scratch *shrugs* this is definitely harder but you get more respect."


I feel this part hard a lot. Theseus ship conundrum.

I was the owner of a WoTS rip called NFF. I added a lot of the mechanics into the game such as Struggling, removing the Leveling system to turn it into full passives, the way stats distributed and health/stamina split, Chakra reservoir, attacks mapped to buttons instead of verbs, skillcards, my shitty art(base, clothes, skills, etc) new moves, village reduction and organically built the community.

It became a point where the game was very different and a lot of stuff recoded completely as time went on as I was daily working on it throughout highschool.


Eventually I said fuck it and completely recoded from scratch that source and low and behold, 2 1/2 years of work on my own ended up getting stolen and released from the very said community I slaved over. Years later many of owners who've continued the source have made money off of content I've made and continue the pattern of backstabbing and stealing from another.

But also of course, they've made a lot of contributions themselves too and they themselves get backstabbed. I guess funnily Naruto had the whole "Cycle of Hatred" motif and this game had the whole "Cycle of Rips."


These days I began coding from scratch an original Pokemon project out of passion but now I'm transitioning 7+ years of that work to an original Monster Catching Pokemon-inspired IP.


Truth be told, learning the copyright laws and the treatment of fangames through actual legal laws - there is no future for fangames that doesn't involve hiding. It seems to vary from IP to IP, but even with a Pokemon game with a smaller community starting off I've been threatened to have my game reported to GF by people who feel entitled to your time, obsessed towards you or just want power over you.


My story is not isolated. There's many developers we've seen get screwed over and over and over again.

Ter is absolutely right. The biggest downfall of fangames wasn't just BYOND hiding them but really the communities that the fangames comprised of being really really toxic.


I'd like to continue a project on BYOND because I love this engine because it's all I known and know. It's a stress relief using it to pixel art. It's fun mapping on it. I love the language and coding it as a hobby and to pass time. And I love developing games with it.

But also, I do miss the large active communities. It felt like being on the BYOND main page always gave you access and free advertising. There's definitely now a lot more anxieties now in regards to attempting to build a strong player base.
Toxicity brews in games that aren't trying to take themselves seriously, people trying to host a rip to get the feels of being "the one who controls all".

Hi I'm Bustercannon and I have had two games "stolen" from me in my youth which is a lot of what charged some this toxicity as well with how many children were coming along trying to do something half-way.

"Stolen" because I'm the one who let it happen, if you can't take responsibility you can't move on. Many of these half-way developers over the years have become popular and used their micro-platform of degenerates to sully anime games while toting being an "aficionado" of them. I'd of removed them off the platform as well if it were mine.

We're older now and age should give some perspective, I still run my old fan game and I enjoy it even with the lack of exposure it gets, something fuels me into thinking maybe one day the quality of my product will carry it where it needs to.

Regardless, it had to be nuked not because of the IP's we're using but because of this trend. My only hope is that one day we could see fangames that put the work in gain some form of light shone on them for the dedication of those still making those communities happy united under BYOND.
As one of the original players/admins of DB RP games here on BYOND (way back in the year 2000 is when I made my first BYOND key, Yalir), I can attest from recent events how toxic and disingenuous parts of the community still are. I aired concerns over possible OOC bias getting into admins' IC from how their characters' IC overly harsh reactions to a stupid mistake my character made didn't make logical sense considering how their own characters were, and all the other RP they witnessed for my character ICly too. Rather than be willing to discuss it, Curtain Call's game owner Maltet banned me for discussing IC in OOC channels, metagaming, bad behavior, and bringing drama to Final Revelations' discord. In reality, I had told Maltet myself my intention was to help him realize where he might have messed up and to help him fix it and RP better. Instead, he flipped out and falsely accused me of breaking an agreement I never actually made. He misrepresented my actions, words, and intentions in the ban message to the entire server. Not only that, he and others were the ones who actually brought drama directed at me on Final Revelations' discord. Rather than ban those making lies and drama, I was banned to 'bring peace' back to the Final Revelations discord. That's very much the wrong approach. That amounts to appeasement and only emboldens the toxic bullies to keep attacking me. I even tried to talk to the head admin of Final Revelations about the wrongful ban and he chose to block me without any response. I have no idea if this ban is permanent or not, Discord never tells you the details. This abusive bully mentality spills over into BYOND DB RP games, unfortunately. I'm one of those who seeks to build up and create enjoyable RP for everyone (yes, that includes conflict done in a RP-constructive way). The pattern I've seen on games with larger playerbases is self-centered RPers actually destroying and wrecking wider RP with their IC actions. There's always OOC intentions behind everyone's RP, and every good RPer knows to keep OOC feelings/info out of their IC. That doesn't mean you shouldn't talk about IC happenings in OOC, either. It's a good idea to analyze and discuss IC over OOC channels because OOC coordination is essential for many IC 'events'. Not only that, it lets people alert others who might be messing up, inconsistent, and/or wider RP-wrecking with their IC so those others can be made aware of where they might be going wrong and take measures to fix it.
In response to Bustercannon
Bustercannon wrote:
Toxicity brews in games that aren't trying to take themselves seriously, people trying to host a rip to get the feels of being "the one who controls all".

Hi I'm Bustercannon and I have had two games "stolen" from me in my youth which is a lot of what charged some this toxicity as well with how many children were coming along trying to do something half-way.

"Stolen" because I'm the one who let it happen, if you can't take responsibility you can't move on. Many of these half-way developers over the years have become popular and used their micro-platform of degenerates to sully anime games while toting being an "aficionado" of them. I'd of removed them off the platform as well if it were mine.


Rippers were friggin vultures man. On my old key back in 2006 or so I helped a guy with his game, and we had a ton of people gunning for the source code, even a few trolls who were spamming with shock site links because we didn't give it up.

I feel like if the no-effort rip spam wasn't such an issue, a lot more interesting fangames would have flourished.