Actually, nah. I'm gonna rant now, because apparently politics and being vitriolic to no one in particular is what off topic just is now.

I'm tired of this being the political adversary we've fucking got right now. I'm sick of politics being a three ring circus of where people put their penis, or whether they should be allowed to use a bathroom, or which elected fucking smooth-faced botox laden corporate toilet slept with which objective waste of human flesh vapid socialite.

I want political adversaries that want to talk about real fucking issues. I'm so goddamn tired of this "We need a civil war because they're gonna take our guns." NO. THEY ARE NOT. This country has more guns than children. Literally. Literally, you could kill every single child in this country dozens of times over just by stacking the number of guns we have on top of them. You wouldn't have to fire a shot. Just a big pile of whatever amendment we wasted on Smith & Wesson instead of I dunno, ALL human beings having rights to begin with. Nobody has threatened your bullshit right to fantasize about murdering whatever scary dark-skinned man steps onto your property after 7:30, but before Matlock comes on.

I'm sick to death of the opposite of my political peers being obsessed with feminism and gays in the catholic church and whether or not prayer in schools should be led by government employees, or whether or not football is gay now because of a pink ribbon. I'm fucking sick of it. Get off the idpol and look at what's happening to you. You aren't being mobbed by mexicans. Muslims aren't salivating over your daughters. Black people aren't invading your neighboorhoods: You are getting poorer, and the rich are getting richer.

Just once, I want to have a conversation about fucking affordable housing iniatives, or education funding and outcomes, or have a government that's competent enough to understand that disenfranchising unions might be the right move in the short run for political optics, but overall is setting the stage for a giant goddamn disaster when the workers get sick enough of it that the state has to bring the police in to kill a few of them again.

We're, as a country, literally spiraling down a toilet because we're on the one hand, being forced into media rabbitholes that ask us to simp for nazis, or snap our fingers instead of fucking clapping because it might piss off vets with PTSD. You know what I want? A country with a healthcare program that actually encourages progressive treatment for vets with PTSD. I want a god damn functional healthcare system that isn't designed top to bottom to enrich a handful of people while patients and doctors alike are more likely to kill themselves than to breach the next social class in their lifetime.

It's absolutely beyond obnoxious that YOU are what my actual political adversaries have created in order to turn the both of us against ourselves so that they can play hungry hungry hippos with an entire class of people that are robbing us blind as we speak and making us fight each other over whatever stupid fucking incendiary thing that clowns like Crowder or Ben Shapiro vomited into a mic to feed the algorithm and sell books to avoid working for a living like the rest of us fucking morons do, but wouldn't if it weren't for the actual threat of death at the hands of police due to the criminalized treatment of homelessness.


But nah. Let's talk more about stupid fucking pointless political scandals by people we didn't want to elect in the first place, but had to, because the alternative was basically "Yeah, let's hand Moria over to the goblins on purpose. They deserve a fair shake. What's the worst that could happen?". Goddamn cave trolls. Cave trolls are what will happen.

Dysfunctional congress.
Dysfunctional senate (that only exists to make representative government favor the wealthy)
Dysfunctional executive top to bottom.
Dysfunctional judiciary.

Really. Really. Biden isn't our guy. He's the processed leavings of the out of control spending on elections that Citizens United strapped a rocket up the ass of. For every Biden, for every Trump, there are twenty more faceless husks out there begging to be stuffed with corporate cash and told how to acceptably flap their cum-catchers to best please their oligarch overlords, and that's exactly the problem with populist obsessions with individual politicians. You aren't following a person. You are following the illusion of a person who has had their personality vomited into them by some hedge fund manager that would hunt people for sport if he hadn't lost his private island in the gamestop debacle. When they fuck up, you throw them away, and you try to find someone better. The problem is that our system, and how we do politics, doesn't produce better, which is objectively demonstrable by us electing someone who has been repeatedly and thoroughly shown to be a fraud and a con man, and the race between both him and our "best" being even remotely close. They're all socks to be worn and then discarded. Either by us, or by their corporate masters.

Yeah, but no, let's post polls about taking the rights of women to vote to trigger people to prove our political adversaries are weak people who get triggered because I'm saying something naughty.

The whole alt right is basic. Y'all ain't edgey. Y'all ain't transformative. You're the saturday morning cartoons of politics. Not even the good era of saturday morning cartoons either. Fuckin' beetleborgs era. The corporate left shuts the real deal socialists the fuck up and keeps us from talking to the rest of America. --And the part that pisses me off the most, is that I know a ton of conservatives that agree with every single point I make about the structural and economic problems we face as a country, but the minute they figure out I'm a socialist, they start parroting far right talking points and go dead inside like they are wooden marionettes just reading a script, because they get scared that they are off the farm and in the wilderness with one of those dangerous thinky people.

Are these the hot takes you were looking for? That free speech environment engendering real discussion and mutual respect?
Please, Lummox. Don't close this. I know it seems flamey and off the rails, but I promise, it's okay. I'm not going to get all mean and beligerant. I'm eager to commune in this untethered way. I'll be super-duper doubly good. Angelic. Just let us hash this out for once. I'll buy you lunch. After it's done, toss the whole thread into the fire, I don't care, but this is the only place Ter and I are able to communicate, and I really don't want it to end like this. I'd like to try and mend what is mendable. I still have hope we can fix this. Let us try.
I vote Ter13 for President.
In response to Ter13
Ter13 wrote:
It was just another character attack.

Nah, it's not really about character. It's more pointing toward behavior. You've taken two situations that should, in any rational person's mind have been treated via the same process the same way, and then spun them out into two wildly different things by technicality and by pushing needles and twine through a parade of turds to make a whimsical turd-festooned bullshit tree complete with turd angel and pubic hair tensle. With corn somewhere. I dunno. This metaphor got away from me.

They are technically different, though. One was President of the United States of America, and the other was not.

This is a political party making a show of this after spending the last year making up tacitly nonsense arguments for their stronk man's illegal behavior, despite spending the last five years prior to that shouting that Hillary was guilty of treason for pieces of classified mail on an e-mail server.

I'm not familiar with my party's arguments as I don't watch political commentary or news, so I can't speak to the absurdity you claim. I don't see how Trump's behavior has ever been illegal. What law did he break? Yes, Hillary comitted treason. No, she will never serve justice for her crimes. We can argue that another time, but this topic is about Biden.

The point is kind of that the position you have taken is an publicly, openly, and laughably absurd position to take that is logically indefensible.

And yet I logically defend it unopposed.

It takes you pages upon pages of screeds and cherry picking information to somehow hurl yourself free of the hypocrisy you are trying to accuse others of, and those others popped into the thread, and were just like: "Yeah, investigate him. Maybe he did a thing he shouldn't have. We don't know. Let's let the institutions that oversee this take care of it.".

Let me just remind everyone that, while this appears to be a general quote aggregated from many unanimous sources, it is a misquote of a statement that Ter himself made, and one which nobody else echoed (except me). This appeal to the authority of consensus is not logical. It is not an argument. Popular does not equate proper.

I think, that's the cherry on top of the absurd sundae you've made here. You came here expecting a bunch of people to fight you on how Biden is totally different, and you somehow threw that dart into the dirt to make this thread 90% by volume explanations about how Trump having boxes of classified documents at a golf club that's been repeatedly breached by foreign agents over the last four years is totally different. Everyone can see how silly that is.

Let me also remind everyone that I have repeatedly attempted to get this thread back on topic, and it was not I who kept bringing him up. You yourself posted two youtube videos of Trump, and Spev only seemed interested in talking about him. I'll say it again. This thread is not about Trump. It's about Biden.

Meanwhile, the right just spent the last several years coming up with reasons why that same institution that you are suddenly horned up about getting to deliver your political adversaries' heads on spikes, was a democrat-laden partisan witch hunt out to tarnish the reputation of based president.

Yeah, not getting that reference at all. The DOJ? Did I not claim what they did to Trump was wrong? Did I not say that Biden will never face justice? I did say those things, because they are true.
Also, yes, Trump is based. I wish you could see it.

The point of all of this is the continued erosion of norms and the inflammation of a sense of personal injustice among the people.

I agree with you there. The point is to get you and I to fight. I don't want to fight with you. I want you to see what I see.

When they see the same institution ultimately not hold Biden accountable for what they baselessly believe to be worse than what Trump was not held accountable for, they will connect it to Hillary not being held accountable, and somehow, in defiance of all reason and personal integrity, see a trend that the justice system is biased against Republicans and needs to be torn down.

I'm not sure where this is even coming from, but okay. Biden and Hillary broke the law, Trump didn't. Not sure what the issue is. If two criminals go free while an inocent man is accused, it's not unreasonable to suspect corruption. Especially if the two are on one team, and the one is not. For the record, I haven't made any statements prior to this reply about Hillary. This is all guilt by association.

Real talk, y'all got what you wanted.

And there's the central issue here. You don't understand what republicans value. This idea you have of us is false. It's hostile, and it's preventing us from talking to each other about issues. Our voices have been silenced across all spectrums of communication. You wish I could be silenced here. You've likely never spoken to a republican about this stuff before. Now you unload a mountain of pent up grievances which are based on, frankly, lies. I don't value any of this:

We're an America with a de facto aristocracy in all but name. ​We're an America with weak labor unions. We're an America with a police force that can use lethal force against its own citizens with total impunity. We're a nation with a prison population that makes authoritarian states blush. We're a nation that criminalizes medical problems, poverty, and public service. We're a nation that has gutted entitlements, the social safety net, taxation programs that fund the very infrastructure that is supposed to maintain the workforce that the wealthy use to enrich themselves as the expense of their own labor pool, and we're a nation that has effectively no functioning system of care for the infirm and the disadvantaged. This is the America the Republican party has fought tooth and nail for. Why aren't you happy with it?

Why would anyone be happy with that?

I appreciate you continuing to play the victim, while talking broadly about how you used to ban people for exercising their free speech,

I never banned anyone for exercising their free speech. I banned people for being trolls. For intentionally baiting someone so they could be punished. Chatters has rules and moderation. You have no rights to free speech there. You never have. That's why GigaChat is different. There are no rules, and no moderation. You can literally say anything you like, and nobody can stop you.

while trolling the shit out of a forum over the fact that theiy reserve the right to shut you up if you stuff everyone else's ears too full of shit without consent.

For the record, I don't require your consent to post on the forums. If my posts upset you, nobody is forcing you to read them. If the admins ban me for making political posts, it proves the mods are biased. The moderators aren't biased like that, as I have already admitted, so I have no fear of being banned for wanting to discuss why Biden should be impeached. I don't see where the allegation of trolling applies.

You ever cook pasta? You have to layer the salt to do it well. Only in this metaphor, it's hypocrisy that you're layering. I think you'd be real good at italian cooking.

My dayjob is actually as a chef. I've been itching to share some recipes, but I think you might fear they are poison.

If you are incapable, then that means I win by default.

I say you wouldn't get it, because a lack of self awareness is painfully on brand for the people who lap up your particular brand of strong man politics. It's just facts. If you can't prove that wrong, I win by default. Are you enjoying this kind of argument? Do you see how childish it is when it's thrown back at you?

My point there was to illustrate how fallacies, such as ad hominem attacks, aren't a valid argument. If you don't offer a valid argument, then I must presume that you can't, and that must mean I am likely correct. Seems reasonably logical to me.

It's not even trolling. It's just giving you what you wanted. You start these threads to get attention. You escalate them to get attention, and then when they blow up and get locked, you revel in how oppressed you are. I'm giving you what you want. Why aren't you happy with it?

Correction. I start these threads to start a conversation. I do not seek attention. Look at how you despise me. Do you think this is desirable? To be hated by people who once called you great? It really sucks. You once called me great. Now you choke on my name. I did that. I sacrificed our relationship for what I thought was right. I'd do it again. That's what a principled person with integrity does. I don't seek attention. I uphold my principals.

Name one lefty political bait thread posted on purpose to shit on the right on this whole platform in the last year. One. You're the only one doing this. You're not oppressed. You're just the guy on the street corner with a bible shouting slurs at people minding their fuckin' business, and then pretending everyone who gives him the finger and tells him to fuck off is oppressing his religious freedoms.

I don't go out of my way looking for fights. A final note for the record, I'm not religious. As a matter of fact, I am quite anti-religion. I bet we share that in common. I am a moderate conservative. There are many issues we likely see eye to eye on. Obviously not this one, but many others.
In response to Ter13
Ter13 wrote:
Actually, nah. I'm gonna rant now, because apparently politics and being vitriolic to no one in particular is what off topic just is now.

This thread was not vitriolic until you posted your vitriol. My contributions have been reserved and on topic. This. This is not. This is you attempting to derail the topic and instigatimg a conflict directly, because you failed to incite me to conflict. If you drag it down far enough, perhaps Lummox will close it, and you can point to that action as further proof that I need to be removed. Classic troll baiting. Sorry, I'm not playing that game.


I'm tired of this being the political adversary we've fucking got right now.

I am equally disappointed with the opposition I've gotten. You have not tried to talk about these issues in any way that would be considered a debate. It's mainly been "You're unreasonable, wrong, and insane." As if your position is unasailable and mine is without reason, because of a presumed sense of consensus brought about by your peers agreeing with your pressumptions and assertions, and not by any moral standing or reasoned argument.

I'm sick of politics being a three ring circus of where people put their penis, or whether they should be allowed to use a bathroom, or which elected fucking smooth-faced botox laden corporate toilet slept with which objective waste of human flesh vapid socialite.

A sentiment I can get behind. Unfortunately for us, that's not the reality we're faced with. Interest groups have made sexuality a political cornerstone of their position. As political members of society, we are sort of forced to address it, or to pretend it's not happening. Ignoring issues doesn't seem productive, so we must discuss bathrooms and gender, inclusivity, diversity and equity. It's on the plate, and it's not going to magically vanish unless we put it in our mouths and chew.

I want political adversaries that want to talk about real fucking issues.

Then make a political post that addresses the issues you wish to discuss, and I will gladly meet you in that debate. I have done this, at the risk of being maligned and debased. You have a much better reception here, so I don't see any reason you can't speak your mind. If my replies aren't up to your standards, I will attempt to improve, but we'll never have the discussion we want unless we agree to actually talk to one another as human beings, and not as untouchables.

I'm so goddamn tired of this "We need a civil war because they're gonna take our guns."

For the record, republicans, by and large, aren't calling for civil war. The people I see who do are quickly labeled as Feds trying to rile us up, and to people's credit, they don't go for that kind of rhetoric. It is no secret there is some pretty thick tension between the left and right, and we may end up coming to blows, but nobody wants that. If it happens, it won't be over gun rights. It'll be over some random incident that gets out of hand and becomes a national issue. Something like the George Floyd incident. It won't be a bunch of armed men gunning down random people because of "muh gun". This coming from a gun owner.

NO. THEY ARE NOT.

It can't be denied that there has been quite a lot of rhetoric from officials to disarm citizens. I can cite sources, if you'd like. Gun control legislation is a bigg issue, and quite beyond the scope of this reply. We can start a new thread to discuss that, if you like.

This country has more guns than children. Literally. Literally, you could kill every single child in this country dozens of times over just by stacking the number of guns we have on top of them. You wouldn't have to fire a shot. Just a big pile of whatever amendment we wasted on Smith & Wesson instead of I dunno, ALL human beings having rights to begin with.

The second amendment is not about... whatever this is. Guns are dangerous? Gun manufacturers are bad? I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Yes. Guns are dangerous. That's their purpose. They are designed with lethal force as the end goal. Guns are meant to kill, but guns are not the part that is a threat to society at large. It's the person behind the gun that causes the problems we see. If you remove the guns, you have not removed the problem. Let's look at an example.

The UK abolished guns. Now criminals use hammers, kitchen knives and other more accessible weapons. They still have a massive problems with violence and gangs. Removing the guns didn't end the bloodshed. It actually made it worse. Now, instead of having barriers and safeguards to prevent people with violent tendecies from accessing superior force, and granting that force to responsible people who have interests of self preservation and personal security in mind, we have declawed everyone.

Now a child can menace a village with his father's hammer, and no one else can oppose them lawfully. If a group of teens decide to have a machete war in London, nobody can stop them. And they do have such wars today. I can link you the articles. It's reached alarming rates, and the police refuse to get involved.

If citizens still had access to firearms for self defense, this would not happen. A teen with a hammer is no threat to a woman with a gun. Without her gun, she is left to the teen's mercy. If he has any. This has emboldened criminals to wield violence at an ever more frequent rate, and has made large street fights a common occurance.

Nobody has threatened your bullshit right to fantasize about murdering whatever scary dark-skinned man steps onto your property after 7:30, but before Matlock comes on.

Nobody has this right. I take exception to the implication that I am a racist psychopath who fantasizes about murdering dark skinned people. It's this sort of libelous rhetoric that does not help foster mutual understanding between us. I wish you'd stop.

I'm sick to death of the opposite of my political peers being obsessed with feminism and gays in the catholic church and whether or not prayer in schools should be led by government employees, or whether or not football is gay now because of a pink ribbon. I'm fucking sick of it. Get off the idpol and look at what's happening to you.

I am not obsessed with these things. I see feminism being used to villify men, and I don't agree with it. I have no respect for religion, so go be as gay as you like in whatever setting you please. I fully believe the division of church and state should be upheld. Prayer in school is as abhorent to me as sexual grooming is. I consider them both to be a corruption of innocence and a form of indoctrination. I'm also not a sports fan, so I'm not sure what this ribbon stuff is about. Is there a scandal over gay people playing sports that I missed?

You aren't being mobbed by mexicans.

Um. We kind of are, though. Illegal immigration is outrageous right now. It's not just the US either. Every western nation is dealing with massive influxes of illegal immagrants. I can cite many sources to prove this is the case.

I live in New Mexico, so... yeah. I encounter illegal immigrants here. I've drank with and spoken to them at the pub. My Spanish is very bad, so Google translated for us. They're normal people like you and I, they just got here by means that violate our immigration policies. If they followed the legal process, I don't see them as an issue, but they haven't. And their numbers are massive. I can delve futher into this topic in another thread, if you like.

Muslims aren't salivating over your daughters.

Yeah, they are doing much more than salavating. Would you like me to link to the articles? It's pretty upsetting, especially considering the UK police don't pursue an investigation because they don't want to be seen as racist. It is happening. I won't deny reality and my lying eyes.

Black people aren't invading your neighboorhoods:

You don't know me, Ter, so I'll cut you some slack, but if you knew about my life and my experiences, you would not be leveling racist implications towards me. I really wish you'd stop. You don't know me. Don't talk like you do. I'm being very restrained here. If you want my unvarnished response, see me in GigaChat, and I'll educate you properly on why calling Xooxer a racist is probably the dumbest thing you could say out loud.

You are getting poorer, and the rich are getting richer.

Actually, I'm richer now than I have ever been before. I'm buying land, building a house. I own my own truck and I have a 9mm handgun. My laptop is a gaming rig. My wallet is getting fatter everyday, and I'm considering starting a business. Yeah, prices of things have gone up. Yes, inflation is a serious issue for people. Yes, house ownership is getting absurdly expensive.

However, you are still able to make a life for yourself if you work towards goals and don't waste your time and money on things you don't need. I see a lot of people complaining and very few people working. Everyone is hiring but nobody wants to work. They want life handed to them for free. Sorry, that's not how things work. If you want to be rich, do the things you must to be rich. If you want to be poor, do nothing. Most people choose to do nothing. They have no right to demand the rich give them free stuff.

As rich as my life is now, I'm likely still poorer than you are. Give me your car. You owe it to me because I am poor and you have a car. Give me your savings. I deserve it because I've been extremely impoverished my whole life. Forget that you did what you needed to in order to earn these things, they aren't yours by right. They are mine, because I didn't do those things to improve my life, and now you owe me the difference.

That makes as much sense as "eat the rich." None.

Just once, I want to have a conversation about fucking affordable housing iniatives, or education funding and outcomes, or have a government that's competent enough to understand that disenfranchising unions might be the right move in the short run for political optics, but overall is setting the stage for a giant goddamn disaster when the workers get sick enough of it that the state has to bring the police in to kill a few of them again.

Those sound like fine topics, and I do have some things to say. Strike up a thread. Nobody is stopping you.

We're, as a country, literally spiraling down a toilet because we're on the one hand, being forced into media rabbitholes that ask us to simp for nazis, or snap our fingers instead of fucking clapping because it might piss off vets with PTSD.

I think the issues in this country are a tad bit more complex and nuanced than you are making them out to be. Not sure what you mean by simping for nazis. I'm almost afraid to ask.

You're out of line with this comment about veterans' PTSD. That's really callous and mean. Especially for Vietnam vets. You do know what a draft is, right? Those kids had no choice. What they had to experience was horrific. If snapping my fingers helps to ease their suffering, then I see no reason to clap. I've never even heard of this snapping/clapping stuff before now, but I understand it, and you are being very not compassionate. That's the best way I can say it.

You know what I want? A country with a healthcare program that actually encourages progressive treatment for vets with PTSD.

You lost me at progressive. I want a country that actually treats veterans, period. Many don't get any help at all. The VA is a joke. We need to do better for the men and women who fight for us. I don't know what progressive treatment means, but I agree they need treatment.

I want a god damn functional healthcare system that isn't designed top to bottom to enrich a handful of people while patients and doctors alike are more likely to kill themselves than to breach the next social class in their lifetime.

I agree, unless your solution is socialized healthcare. Then I would rather keep the care we have. Socialized healthcare has its own problems, and none of those problems seem worth it. I don't want to wait 18 months for a health screening only to be grouped in a mob of others over a Zoom call that just tells us all to go watch their YouTube video on healthy living tips. I'd rather pay a doctor too much money to have him actually see me this week, and run actual bloodwork and stick a real finger up yonder nether regions looking for prostate problems.

Just read up on some of the issues the UK has with its NHS. Kids with their faces torn up from being mauled by a dog having to wait 6 hours to even be seen by a receptionist in the ER. Grousome. I don't think you really want "free" healthcare. Not really. Not if you knew what that meant. Again, start a thread on the topic. I'll join the conversation.

It's absolutely beyond obnoxious that YOU are what my actual political adversaries have created in order to turn the both of us against ourselves so that they can play hungry hungry hippos with an entire class of people that are robbing us blind as we speak and making us fight each other over whatever stupid fucking incendiary thing that clowns like Crowder or Ben Shapiro vomited into a mic to feed the algorithm and sell books to avoid working for a living like the rest of us fucking morons do, but wouldn't if it weren't for the actual threat of death at the hands of police due to the criminalized treatment of homelessness.

0_0 I'm not even going to try to decipher this monolithic run-on sentence. I don't follow Shapiro or Crowder. I think Shapiro is kind of a loon, and Crowder is primarily a political commentator, and I don't have time for that.

But nah. Let's talk more about stupid fucking pointless political scandals by people we didn't want to elect in the first place, but had to, because the alternative was basically "Yeah, let's hand Moria over to the goblins on purpose. They deserve a fair shake. What's the worst that could happen?". Goddamn cave trolls. Cave trolls are what will happen.

Nobody forced you to reply. You were free to ignore my post. You chose to contribute. I am not to blame for your despair. As for the rest of this, it's simply fanatical extremist diatribe. Trump is not a cave troll. Biden was not the hero we deserved. Republicans are not goblins. You are not Aragorn. It would be nice to speak reasonably, without all this overly dramatic rhetoric.

Dysfunctional congress.
Dysfunctional senate (that only exists to make representative government favor the wealthy)
Dysfunctional executive top to bottom.
Dysfunctional judiciary.

Eh, still better than communism. Also, the past couple of years, those have been democrat run branches. Why are you not happy? Isn't being in power what you wanted?

Really. Really. Biden isn't our guy.

Funny. 80 million voters disagree.

He's the processed leavings of the out of control spending on elections that Citizens United strapped a rocket up the ass of. For every Biden, for every Trump, there are twenty more faceless husks out there begging to be stuffed with corporate cash and told how to acceptably flap their cum-catchers to best please their oligarch overlords,

Not sure if we're talkimg about politics or porn now, but I'm getting rather excited. Tell me more about this cum catching faceless husk fetish. I've never heard of it.

and that's exactly the problem with populist obsessions with individual politicians. You aren't following a person.

The cum catching? I mean. If they are good catchers it shouldn't get that messy. Maybe they just need more training in the off season?

You are following the illusion of a person who has had their personality vomited into them by some hedge fund manager that would hunt people for sport if he hadn't lost his private island in the gamestop debacle.

Wait, you think Trump is a fabricated person? The reason most people like Trump is because he isn't your standard empty suit. He's a businessman, not a politician. The closest thing we've had to an Everyman President. He's been vilified precisely because he doesn't play ball with the establishment career politicians. I think he's a bafoon, but I like his policies and his rhetoric. He got people excited about politics again, because he was so different from everything that came before. He certainly isn't bought off or in anyone's pocket. That's why they hate him. He's untouchable and is clean as a whistle. The cleanest President, probably ever.

When they fuck up, you throw them away, and you try to find someone better.

We're pretty loyal to Trump. Well, I am. Some republicans are going to back DeSantis, but from the polling I've seen, they are a minority. Like Trump jokingly said in the video you posted, he could kill a man and not lose supporters. It's hyperbole, of course, but only just. His point was correct, his fans are very loyal. Nobody is tossing him away.

The problem is that our system, and how we do politics, doesn't produce better, which is objectively demonstrable by us electing someone who has been repeatedly and thoroughly shown to be a fraud and a con man,

Finally, you're back on topic. I agree. Biden is a terrible pick.

and the race between both him and our "best" being even remotely close. They're all socks to be worn and then discarded. Either by us, or by their corporate masters.

Um, not to be that guy, but the election results were not close. Trump won by quite a healthy majority. Of course, after the results were fornicated, that changed, but the real numbers were very different from the fake results we were given. Yes. The election was stolen. Not even the dems deny it anymore. A discussion for anothe thread, for sure.


Yeah, but no, let's post polls about taking the rights of women to vote to trigger people to prove our political adversaries are weak people who get triggered because I'm saying something naughty.

Hehehe. Actually, that poll was meant to get people to use GigaChat. It was clickbait. I made it as outrageously inciting as I thought I could get away with, knowing people would jump on the opportunity to tell me how wrong and horrible I was. I leaned into this racist biggoted mysogynistic character you paint me as and used it to advertise my chat. It didn't have the result I had hoped, but it did turn heads, as it was meant to do. Maybe the next clickbait poll will get tongues wagging and butts in seats. I'm open to topic suggestions.

The whole alt right is basic.

What is alt right? I keep hearing that term used, but I never understood what it refers to. I'm a moderate conservative, myself. I do like alternative rock from the grunge period, but I doubt that's what alt right is about. Is there another right wing political movement hiding behind a curtain somewhere?

Y'all ain't edgey. Y'all ain't transformative.

Yeah. That's because conservatives aren't radical extremist progressives. It's kind of our thing to be as not radical as possible. We like tradition, conservation, classic ideals and all that stuffy stoic jibber jabber. We're vanilla. We're humdrum and boring. We're not the type to take up vigilante justice or go out with pitchforks and torches chasing windmills. We do protest, we do petition. We do politic, we don't want to transform the country or be seen as edgy or extreme. We're Hobbits. We want a quiet home and hearth and a nice pipe. We don't go adventuring or slaying dragons. We value the America we had. We don't seek to challenge societal norms.

You're the saturday morning cartoons of politics.

Man, I miss Saturday morning cartoons. The 80's and 90's had the best morning lineup.

Not even the good era of saturday morning cartoons either. Fuckin' beetleborgs era.

Ha. That's funnny.

The corporate left shuts the real deal socialists the fuck up and keeps us from talking to the rest of America.

America is not a socialist country, and if it became one, I don't think you'd like it. Talk to someone who lived under socialism. It's kind of a hellscape. Socialism has never worked. That road leads inexorably to dictatorship. We can discuss socialism in a separate thread, if you like. I have many things to say on the topic. It would be a good topic, if we can keep it civil. I think we can. We just need to play it cool. Not get overly biosterous. I'm down for a chat like that. I believe it could be very enriching for us both.

--And the part that pisses me off the most, is that I know a ton of conservatives that agree with every single point I make about the structural and economic problems we face as a country,

I can see that being true. Most people find fault with the way things are. We agree on some key points. For example, I think unionization is integral to a healthy workforce.

but the minute they figure out I'm a socialist, they start parroting far right talking points and go dead inside like they are wooden marionettes just reading a script, because they get scared that they are off the farm and in the wilderness with one of those dangerous thinky people.

Socialism isn't a very good form of government. I don't believe you understand what you are asking for. We really should have that discussion, but not here. Not now.


Are these the hot takes you were looking for? That free speech environment engendering real discussion and mutual respect?

Honestly? Yes. This was a wonderful response. I'm glad you were willing to open up and allow me to address your points in a civil manner. I could have done without some of the racist rhetoric, but this is progress. Don't you feel beeter having gotten this off your chest? I hope so. I really do.

The thing that upset me the most was how upset you were. It really bothered me to know you were feeling stressed at work by parents, and that you were concerned for your safety. I tried to explain a few times how this is all a misunderstanding, and that you really don't need to feel this way about the right, but those replies were deleted by Lummox. I felt you saw me as a monster, and there was nothing I could do or say to make you feel better.

Forget politics. You are a human being with a right to happiness. Security. A future. You should not have to fear violence or hatred. You should be free to express your individuality, your sexuality, your hopes and aspirations like everyone else. It felt like someone stabbed you in the back, and when you turned around, you saw me, and nothing I could say or do could convince you the knife wasn't mine.

I apologize if I caused you misery, Ter. We may not be friends, but we don't have to be enemies. You're okay in my book, even if you're a socialist.
Let me know what you want for lunch, JR.
I have nothing to add or correct here but your accusation that I lack empathy for vets. I'm a vet. I have service related trauma. --You're off base with a lot of things. That one in particular is the only one I am gonna bother speaking to.

Everything you say is in bad faith. Full stop.
So I'm gonna shut this down here, Xooxer, and I mean all of it, not just this thread. Honestly if I'd been in a position to pay closer attention to this thread sooner I should've done it then.

These posts of yours aren't really being made in good faith and they're all going off the rails for that reason. This isn't like the goofy meme stuff Koz does with his tongue firmly in his cheek—which isn't to say I don't believe he believes in what he's saying, but he's really not trying to provoke a fight either. You've been trying to push an agenda that isn't so much political as trying to force a self-fulfilling prophecy about getting banned from the forums, which you would then claim is for political reasons. It isn't.

If you want to find a place to just rant at people it isn't here. I'm just sick of dealing with the bad energy this is bringing.
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