A large part of this has been discussed repeatedly, and the end summary of worthwhile commentary is merely: We need more developers that are going to take advantage of what BYOND offers already.

Inevitably, it always devolves into pointless flaming about how BYOND pales in comparison to UDK, and about how BYOND should make sandwiches for them by default.

Inevitably, the answer comes down to simply: make games. Our biggest draw of users has always been from individual games, and not from the engine itself.

I was drawn in by the engine back in 2000-2001, but back then, there was no competition for making multiplayer games.

Now, our majority audience seems to be drawn in from the anime games and SS13 itself. Silk's games have also brought in significant draw.

Unfortunately, however, this helps us secure a playerbase, and BYOND is largely marketing itself to, and being sustained by the developer base.

The end answer is just make games, and market them outside of BYOND.

and now for our monthly "hao 2 advartise bayaond?" thread lol

EmpirezTeam wrote:

and now for our monthly "hao 2 advartise bayaond?" thread lol

Oh? We've cut back to just monthly now? Progress!

Where do they come from? Friends and search engines? Those were the only two ways I ever thought of. With search engines, wouldn't we have to consider what a person would type in the engine mostly? Then, place it in the description of the game. I'm pretty sure nobody is going to come to a good game if it doesn't have a good hint saying, "Hey, this is what you've been looking for!"

What's the biggest reason why there aren't many new great games being made/finished?

For me, I tend to quit on my projects because of the lack of willing artists. I try to draw by myself but they look like.. I don't know.

Xirre wrote:

What's the biggest reason why there aren't many new great games being made/finished?

The biggest reason is that independent game development is a personal struggle. Making games is a legitimately difficult affair, especially if you're trying to do so alone due to the number of different skill sets required in order to put out a complete game.

Some people honestly have no interest in trying to make the next big thing, and just like to tinker with making small games as a hobby. Which is perfectly fine; given that independent game developers use their own time and resources to make games -- as opposed to being contracted/paid to do so by a publisher -- then they are the ones that can decide just how far they want to go with their projects.

Unfortunately, this makes gaming portals such as BYOND risky ventures because you have to rely on the community members to take up the torch of being developers. It is up to said developers to motivate themselves and push towards creating and releasing a game.

Ultimately, we cannot force developers to make games, let alone good games. It's all up to the developers as to what scope and quality they set out to make their games. No one on BYOND (and independent game development in general) is obligated to putting out great games, regardless of how badly BYOND needs fresh, new games.

The thing is, some people have no interest in BYOND, but this isn't because of the engine itself. I've noticed many things (my upcoming point being rather controversial)- People build what they want, disregarding what the community and player base want.

For example, I make a Helicopter Sniping game. I enjoy it and want to play it, and so do 7 other of my friends. Yet the other 2,993 people online don't have an interest in it, and so I start to wonder why no one likes my Helicopter Sniping game.

My main reason is that for more people to come into BYOND, time (despite the fact there has been loads of waiting) needs to continue to flow and with that HOPEFULLY the game quality will get better.

To clarify my point two paragraphs ago, I don't mean that developers should not make what they want (since it's totally up to them and the software is called Build Your Own Dream). However, I think that they need to communicate with the community who WILL be playing their game more. Graphics is half of the equation (though many people including myself do somewhat judge a game to a certain degree based on the graphics) and so is Gameplay and Ease of Use (I judge by this as well).

I know in time the amount of people coming to BYOND and joining (being here for 6 months is what I call 'joining') will increase; it's just a matter of when. I guess that people need to remember that their games represent BYOND.

(I dunno if this should be in another topic but it somewhat has things to do with this so~)

It's really a 50/50 thing - Developer Input/Staff Input.

I disagree, and I've said it before. The tide must be changed, and public opinion needs to be shifted. And the only way that will ever happen is for really good games to be made here, and promoted everywhere with no attempt to hide their creation.

The prejudice can only be reversed by countering it with as many examples against it as possible.

So, sure, cutting all ties to BYOND and hiding the fact might work for an individual developer just trying to make a quick buck or a quick name for himself, but it will do nothing to drag BYOND out of the hole it has fallen into.

Perhaps this sort of loyalty is uncommon, but I for one feel an obligation to do whatever I can to help this amazing little engine that could, and I'd hope that most of my fellow BYONDers feel the same.

I actually have a similar sense of loyalty, and I would say it's kind of hit and miss among the developers around here. Some feel it, some don't, but most of the ones that do not I feel have been made that way because of what The Magic Man has mentioned.

So, with what he has said in mind, I wonder if the way to change the tide is actually to do something in between what you and The Magic Man have said; hide the fact at first then reveal it in the credits or at least some late point in game where they've already started loving the game.

If they find out it's BYOND before playing, it's easy to write off and not give it a try. Foolish, of course, but easy to do. Even if it's good they won't know, so it won't help. If they never find out it's BYOND, it does nothing for the engine, there's no arguing that. If they find out after they get really into it, though, wouldn't that be the best way to change the tide? Some people could be stupid about it, but most of them would have to admit that the fact it is a BYOND game is no reason for them to call the game bad after they've been calling it good up until seeing that.

I guess word could spread after someone sees the credits, though, so that may not work. It's so tricky to change such a widely spread opinion.

It may have to be done the longer, tougher way where things that don't already have the opinion, like popular blogs, and forums are used to try and apply a good force of energy that will eventually spread into the more popular areas like Reddit.

Wikipedia, while not as important, will also be among the more popular ones, but I think it will be the very last one to change.

It doesn't. Mostly as adwords(and paid ads in general) in general is a high cost low return kind of marketing, and BYOND doesn't really have a lot of "high cost" going spare.

To put a little perspective on it, I rolled a little adwords campaign for BYOND Anime. £80 outlaid, 300,000 impressions, 400 clicks. Probably one new non-member, at best. The anime segment I was after probably was less discerning than say ... the indie developer segment, so I'd expect worse returns there.