ID:773631
Is it true that the distinction between games of members vs games of non-members applies to demos and libraries as well?
If this is so, I think this should be reconsidered. Unlike games, the listing of demos and libraries are more to the benefit of Byond than they are to the benefit of their creators. Making them any less visible because of membership status is like shooting yourself in the foot.
Also, because developers don't benefit as much from any demos or libraries they make, their purpose is to facilitate other developers, and the quality of a demo or library is not as opinion-based as games, this means that you should feel free to have a heavier hand against demos and libraries than you do against games. Don't be afraid to keep a demo or library from being featured if you decide you don't think it's good quality, or to promote others because they are exceptional quality. The publicity they get should be based primarily on their quality and usefulness, because these are tools that help other developers to succeed and therefor Byond to succeed.
ID:132399
 Jan 29 2011, 4:56 am
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I'm not a member but my Server Tool demo - even if I say it myself - is of acceptable quality, in terms of functionality and usefulness. So what you said about filtering out non-member utilities = filtering out bad submissions, is in my opinion far from true...
If it really has nothing to do with money, then it would be better - and more fair - if all demos and libraries are unpublished by default, and everyone can submit their library/demo for review and publication, regardless of paid membership. | |
Nielz wrote:
I'm not a member but my Server Tool demo - even if I say it myself - is of acceptable quality, in terms of functionality and usefulness. So what you said about filtering out non-member utilities = filtering out bad submissions, is in my opinion far from true... You don't understand. Since we have to review submissions to classify them, it helps greatly to have a pre-filter. The members-only works very well for this purpose, because the majority of quality items on the hub are developed by BYOND Members (which is kind of logical because they tend to be more long-time users of the system). I have no doubt that a few things will slip through the cracks under this system; the question is whether that is worth the tremendous amount of extra work it would require to suddenly have a much larger pile to look through. | |
Loduwijk wrote:
ID:773631 Yes, and they've taken it even further for demos and libraries; games of non-members can still be found by searching, but demos and libraries of non-member can't be found AT ALL! No matter what I put in the little search box, my demo will not show up. | |
Nielz wrote:
Yes, and they've taken it even further for demos and libraries; games of non-members can still be found by searching, but demos and libraries of non-member can't be found AT ALL! Game & resource hubs are treated exactly the same. Only those hub entries that were, at any point, visible in a Member account were seeded into "slush pile" and reviewed. Those of acceptable quality were made visible to the search. | |
Tom wrote:
which is kind of logical because they tend to be more long-time users of the system Then why not filter them based on the join date of the developer? As in, demos/libraries of members that have been on BYOND for a set time being able to get their project published. | |
Nielz wrote:
Tom wrote: Well, we'd still have to look through tons of old submissions from people who joined the system in 2005 and left in 2006, for instance. So to do that right we'd have to use a criteria like "hubs by developers who have been around for X months and have been active within the last Y months", which would require some thought and a query and most likely wouldn't catch much stuff. But it's something I'm willing to consider. I don't want good games & resources being lost in this system (and for the most part I don't think they have been). Your condescending "demands" aside, I'll probably even review your entry myself. | |
Nielz wrote:
Could you clarify what you mean by "at some point visible in a member account"? It's kind of vague. Currently, to submit a hub entry to be listed, you have to be a BYOND Member. But since we had so many old entries before creating this system, we just made a lenient criteria that as long as the entry was owned by someone who, at any point in BYOND's history, was a Member, it would be put into the listings (to be reviewed). Basically, if your entry wasn't reviewed, you were never a BYOND Member. | |
Tom wrote:
Well, we'd still have to look through tons of old submissions from people who joined the system in 2005 and left in 2006, for instance. So to do that right we'd have to use a criteria like "hubs by developers who have been around for X months and have been active within the last Y months", which would require some thought and a query and most likely wouldn't catch much stuff. What about just a link or button like "[Submit for review]" that non-member resource HUB owners (who have been around for X months) get in the same place as where the "[Edit] [Stats] [Website] [Forum] [Link] [Not a favorite] [Stop following]" links are. That way it would automatically only be resources of active senior users that are being submitted for review. This manual way of submitting resources along with the current automatic submission of member resources would catch a lot of the good resources without resulting in a ton of submissions to review. Your condescending "demands" aside, I'll probably even review your entry myself. I wasn't expecting that, especially not after being the ass that I become when I'm dissatisfied by anything, but thanks anyway. | |
Then I'm afraid I have to ask you another question. Final Fantasy Legacy, for example - which currently has its HUB in my account - does show up in the search results, even though I have never bought a membership. Since you said that resources and games are treated in exactly the same way, why is it that Final Fantasy Legacy does show up in the search results, but my Server Tool demo does not?
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Nielz wrote:
Then I'm afraid I have to ask you another question. Final Fantasy Legacy, for example - which currently has its HUB in my account - does show up in the search results, even though I have never bought a membership. Since you said that resources and games are treated in exactly the same way, why is it that Final Fantasy Legacy does show up in the search results, but my Server Tool demo does not? Ah, I believe we used games listed in the top guilds as another seeding criteria, so if that game were in BYOND RPG or one of the others, that would do it. Ditto with resources in DreamMakers. | |
Yes, but it may be an oversight. I'll have to think about this. Honestly, the reason for members-only submissions has nothing to do with money; it is simply the easiest filter to weed out bad submissions. What we can do, though, is look at the existing non-member submissions in the pile and see how accurate that applies to resources.