Poll: Should their guidelines be written visible for developers to see?
Login to vote.
Should game listing moderator's make a detailed list that shows specific guidelines for allowing a game to be listed? Game listing moderators are the ones who approve game listings allowing your game to be listed publicaly. In byond we have general guidelines for developers (under options tab on a hub.) Then there are separate guidelines that the moderators keep in their heads and discuss privately. These include but may not be limited to, appearance, user-friendliness, gameplay, etc- all of which can be considered very broad. Who wants to see the rules to making and getting your game approved?
| |||||||||
62% (10)
6% (1)
6% (1)
25% (4)LordAndrew wrote:
Considering that reviewing a game is subjective and based heavily on opinion, means it's impossible to nail down a hard set of guidelines to judge every single game by. Each game is different, which is why we evaluate them case-by-case rather than trying to throw together a set of rules that might not apply to every game. Being hard is no excuse for laziness. You're not to busy to think of reasons to refuse game listing. You should have enough time to write down those reasons in an organized list which people can look at and guide themselves with so they know their game is byond ready. | |
If I had a game that was not approved for whatever reason, I'd be happy with a reason as to why it was not approved, so I can work on it and submit it again.
The only thing that would help pre-publishing is a list of things that will definitely not get your game published (using stolen artwork, choke points in the gameplay etc.). | |
The reasons I listed were things that I noted while playing the game that I felt could be improved upon. They're specific to your game, because it was your game I was reviewing at the time.
Danny Roe wrote: If I had a game that was not approved for whatever reason, I'd be happy with a reason as to why it was not approved, so I can work on it and submit it again. When we mark a game as incomplete, we always make sure to leave a reason as to why in the feedback tab of the hub. The only thing that would help pre-publishing is a list of things that will definitely not get your game published (using stolen artwork, choke points in the gameplay etc.). It seems these were never added to the guidelines listed when making a hub, though we've posted them on the forums before. These are the full set of guidelines: Before you check the box making this hub visible to BYOND Moderators, run through this checklist to ensure your game is ready for review: To note, they don't cover actual gameplay mechanics, user-interface design, and so forth because that part is left up to the listing moderators to evaluate, because again it's impossible to create a list of every single possible thing that can apply to every game that would keep it from being listed. | |
It is possible you just need to type it down. If I knew what you guys actually wanted I could make the list myself. Take what you have reviewed and compile it into a list. When new games come and guidelines don't apply update guidelines (the list)
| |
You cannot have a guideline or list of requirements for each possible circumstance.
It's a pretty simple concept. Ask yourself these questions: 1. Is the game playable? I'm assuming LordAndrew and other moderators think like this when they're reviewing a game. | |
Each game has its reasons to be rejected, there are general requirements like:
-Originality (Rips of other games will not be listed unless the original creator gives up on his game and gives you permission) -Game-play (Has to be playable and not only "almost done") -Game needs to be downloadable or online for the mod to test so he can judge if it's ready or not. - No FUNimation games are allowed (DBZ/ONE PIECE etc..) -If your game looks too similar or uses characters that are properties of FUNimation, you may find your game rejected. The rest depends on the mod reviewing the game, you could respect all those points above but still get rejected, for example, I have developped a tool, called Flag Maker, which creates flags for the game , It's original, complete, and has nothing to do with FUNimation not any other anime, yet it was rejected due to being a tool and not a playable game. So you shouldn't be asking for "Guidelines" as there are no real reqs for what's a good game. You should respect the points mentioned above and there shouldn't be any reasons why your game wouldn't be listed. EDIT: SSX Was too fast xD | |
Are we here for success? Major companies such as sony definatly have a specific group of guidelines. That is why they are successful. We should learn from the best and write down some tangible guidelines to gameplay, interface design, and ect so that we may be successful.
| |
You sir are not creating a game for the whole BYOND community, you create it for a specific audience (That you need to chose before creating the game). There is no such a thing as a "guideline". Everything moves with the flow, a "good" game currently in 2013 would probably be a 3D one. So would you put "3D Requirement" in the guideline?
I doubt, because even though we can all agree that in 2013, all console games should MOST be in 3D, there are people who love old-school games, top down RPGs and many other 2D games. You can not have a SINGLE guideline and have people respect it. You need to aim for something unique and try to make the game different and ask yourself "Why would someone play my game over this one?" <- This is how to be succesfull. | |
The issue is simply that some of the requirements would be:
"The game provides lasting entertainment" "The game's UI is explained to the user, and is intuitive" and so on. Apple for instance have had (may still do) such a guideline in their App Store listing guidelines: "Apple and our customers place a high value on simple, refined, creative, well thought through interfaces. They take more work but are worth it. Apple sets a high bar. If your user interface is complex or less than very good it may be rejected" Which they have, without further specification as to what that is. They also require that you should comply with their iOS Human Interface Guidelines: http://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#documentation/ UserExperience/Conceptual/MobileHIG/Introduction/ Introduction.html Which as you can see, is a veritable book, and is aimed more-so at applications than games (although some still apply). The success story companies carry open guidelines, and so does BYOND. Doubly so as BYOND does not have the benefits a consistent look and feel gives Apple for apps. | |
Byond's only guideline is located under options tab on hubs. These guidlines only affect certain aspects. Whether 2D or 3D major game publishers have standards that must be met. These are guidelines. In order to be effective I believe Byond needs to have all its guidelines updated, modified, and written down on a consistent basis.
| |
I would generally agree with LordAndrew's decision, and probably further add that while BYOND could come up with a style guide for UIs, it would: 1. Be wrong. 2. Be too prescriptive. 3. Still not have specifically told you what you needed to fix. Addressing just the UI in this submission alone, it's a mess, I'm afraid, and really represents what I'd consider a pre-alpha WIP, a first go. It's not something I'd list either. Visually there is no symmetry, no ... apparent purpose in the stats panel even being there (or at the very least, taking up the amount of the screen it does). The icon work seems to represent placeholder art. | |
You have been talking about Sony's guideline but respecting the guidelines comes after respecting what a game is.
-Fun -Attracting -Lasting Entertainment. | |
To Stephen001: Stay on topic.
| |
LOL.
We're on topic. We're explaining to you that before asking why your game was rejected, create the game. | |
Well, this is on topic, as to understand if the more prescriptive guideline mechanism has worth, we need to explore case studies. Your game submission (although a fine game in progress, no doubt) is a good example of what we receive often. It represents, to our end, a work in progress, unpolished and not ready for listing.
The question is, what kind of guidelines could we write (assuming developers adhere to them) that would stop developers submitting an unfinished work too early? Inherently, I don't think we can write guidelines that prevent that, thus some developers will always unfortunately be a little disappointed to find that a moderator thinks their game needs more polish before listing. | |
Considering that reviewing a game is subjective and based heavily on opinion, means it's impossible to nail down a hard set of guidelines to judge every single game by. Each game is different, which is why we evaluate them case-by-case rather than trying to throw together a set of rules that might not apply to every game.
Appearance, user-friendliness, and gameplay are indeed broad topics, but it has to be said that a game's artwork can be detrimental to the experience, that a game can be highly unintuitive or difficult to control, and that gameplay can be unfun and tedious. When we call out aspects like these with our feedback, we're doing so because we feel there's room for improvement in these areas that can help push the game to look more professional, be easier to control, and above all be fun.