Do you think players (serious role-players) would play a game where the computer generates random names and assigns them to players? I'm considering doing that for my new project... as the game works now, the computer generates a default name for your character, to "help" you pick a real-sounding name. (See post below, in babble) But since I made the system, I've been leaning towards enforcing the random names... have the computer give the player a list of three or four names, maybe, and let them pick from among those.
Anybody have any thoughts on this?
ID:154533
 Jun 14 2001, 1:41 pm
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On 6/14/01 5:41 pm LexyBitch wrote:
Do you think players (serious role-players) would play a game where the computer generates random names and assigns them to players? I'm considering doing that for my new project... as the game works now, the computer generates a default name for your character, to "help" you pick a real-sounding name. (See post below, in babble) But since I made the system, I've been leaning towards enforcing the random names... have the computer give the player a list of three or four names, maybe, and let them pick from among those. Hmm. Assign a surname and let players pick their own first name, maybe? Not completely freely, of course, but within reason... | |
Maybe they have a completely imposed name until they can complete a name quest, at which time they get to choose among a set of names? It's a good idea, but a "name quest" wouldn't be at all appropriate for this MUD. Truth be told, just about any game that I would use something like that in, I wouldn't care enough about people's names to do anything more than have an approve/disapprove system (and possibly a check for non-alphabetic characters and a name != key name filter). Actually, I'm toying with the idea of not just assigning names, but also character types (there will be a lot of them.) And then, once you've got so much experience on your account (or you pay BYONDimes for a +account, or something), then you're allowed to create a character, with a name and class of choice. | |
Actually, I'm toying with the idea of not just assigning names, but also character types (there will be a lot of them.) And then, once you've got so much experience on your account (or you pay BYONDimes for a +account, or something), then you're allowed to create a character, with a name and class of choice. This sort of account system would also be a useful expedient if you wanted certain character classes or races or skills or whatnot to be rare, as you could require a higher level of whatever you base creation off of to obtain them. Not just rare because they'd be more powerful, or rare because they'd be more complex, but rare because they're a class or race or skill or whatnot which should be inherently rare (although rare because they're powerful or complex work too.) Just look at all the MUDs out there where you'll be looking through the race list and see something like "The Wotoko are a bizarre humanoid crossbreed between dogs and birds, so rare that they're thought to be a myth by most. Only very few men, most of them lying or insane, have ever claimed to see one of these reclusive creatures." Then you log on and every third person you see walking around in the starting city is playing as one of them. | |
This sort of account system would also be a useful expedient if you wanted certain character classes or races or skills or whatnot to be rare, as you could require a higher level of whatever you base creation off of to obtain them. Not just rare because they'd be more powerful, or rare because they'd be more complex, but rare because they're a class or race or skill or whatnot which should be inherently rare (although rare because they're powerful or complex work too.) Just look at all the MUDs out there where you'll be looking through the race list and see something like "The Wotoko are a bizarre humanoid crossbreed between dogs and birds, so rare that they're thought to be a myth by most. Only very few men, most of them lying or insane, have ever claimed to see one of these reclusive creatures." Then you log on and every third person you see walking around in the starting city is playing as one of them. That's very close to the problem I'm facing. I know that the majority of the players are going to flock to the vampire and werewolf classes, effectively turning the theme of the game into "vampires and werewolves." I just know the fact that being eternally damned in this game actually kind of sucks isn't going to dissuade people from choosing those classes, it'll probably just make them complain to me, "Hey, how come being a vampire isn't as cool as it is in other games?" After having thought about it, I don't think I'm going to assign classes... but I am going to limit starting classes to the more mundane end of the spectrum. | |
Just a thought, but perhaps you could have the starting locations of different classes/races be different. Then when a player starts, they'd mostly see players of their own race.
Then for the other players of different races, seeing your race would be rare... | |
I should explain... this game is set in a modern earth setting with a "secret history" or "Illuminated" feel to it. There is one predominant race: humans. The smattering of other "races" are mostly individual members of dying races, or kinds of creatures that are rare to begin with... and most of them have some means of blending in with humanity. I want everyone to start out together, so that there's no way to tell the aliens and skinchangers and whatnots from the humans... but at the same time, I don't want everyone to be whatnots, I want most people to be human... so that you won't be able to just assume that everyone you encounter is "secretly" a whatnot.
On 6/14/01 9:48 pm Foomer wrote: Just a thought, but perhaps you could have the starting locations of different classes/races be different. Then when a player starts, they'd mostly see players of their own race. | |
That's very close to the problem I'm facing. I know that the majority of the players are going to flock to the vampire and werewolf classes, effectively turning the theme of the game into "vampires and werewolves." I just know the fact that being eternally damned in this game actually kind of sucks isn't going to dissuade people from choosing those classes, it'll probably just make them complain to me, "Hey, how come being a vampire isn't as cool as it is in other games?" Zilal had a little discussion about the target demographics of players (i.e. controlling the population weighting) over on her Cerulea boards. One of the main discussions about races, and one I'm actually planning on enforcing, was one of the rules she proposed; that if there are too many of a certain race, you can't pick it. While this might annoy some, the true roleplayers would find it an interesting challenge, to roleplay and make a human who stands out amongst his population, rather than just another Dark Elf Mage. In fact, if you don't control race selections, every other person will be just another Dark Elf Mage. Annoying as all hell, and totally unrealistic. While you can't access the main page (though I'm fairly sure Zilal would be happy to allow you "approved beta-tester" access, given, your, um, gender =), you can access the boards if you'd like. Though technically, Cerulea is in more of an alpha stage. =) http://zilal.byond.com/cerulea/ [edited] Hmm, on second thought, it looks as though that discussion was removed... how unfortunate. =P | |
On the question of generating names...
Why not generate the names but allow the players to change it? If you wish to discourage renaming, try to penaltise the renaming. Maybe the relationships gained with NPC would be lost? Or maybe a fee penalty. On the question on assigning race, why not just have a general race: called human. Then allow them to get cursed or trained to be something else. I would not pay to play a game, then found out later that I would be called "John Doe" or some other variations... I would also not pay to find out that I could not play the race or class that I like... But for a good free game...Why not? | |
On 6/14/01 11:09 pm Spuzzum wrote:
That's very close to the problem I'm facing. I know that the majority of the players are going to flock to the vampire and werewolf classes, effectively turning the theme of the game into "vampires and werewolves." I just know the fact that being eternally damned in this game actually kind of sucks isn't going to dissuade people from choosing those classes, it'll probably just make them complain to me, "Hey, how come being a vampire isn't as cool as it is in other games?" This would work great for a lot of traditional fantasy games, where the races available to players can all be assumed to exist in relatively great numbers. But a game with a theme heavy on mystery and suspense and intrigue and other niftylike things begs to have really super secret characters scattered around. Suppose you've got an ultra-rare race which can never comprise more than 1/172 of the player population. Basically, about every 172nd newbie would see this race on the list and pick it. The race has now been ruined for another 172 players, because not only will none of them get to play as it, but they're not going to have the benefit of having someone out there playing the character well enough in a way that would enhance the game as it was supposed to. I'm not sure how much this applies to Lexy's game or not, or to any other game that's actually being worked by someone who might be reading this discussion. And don't get me wrong--if you've got a game where the population is supposed to have a 12:5:3 ratio for humans, elves, and dwarves, this sort of system is probably the way to go. But for truly special, rare, unique, mysterious races and classes, I'd much rather have a system based on player merit. | |
On 6/15/01 11:37 am Leftley wrote:
On 6/14/01 11:09 pm Spuzzum wrote: How about having class "trees?" Start with the more general and mundane, and allow players to branch out on their chosen path as they progress. That would put the rarer classes only in the hands of the more experienced players, and would limit their numbers to boot. I am currently using a system where there are no races or classes. There are six main skills from which you pick two, a major and minor to specialize in. Everyone can learn any of the skills, but your specialties get a big boost, and it's much easier to raise those skills. There are effectively 36 different combinations of character types, though I guess I lose a lot of the cool factor of having specific names for them. (Not to mention fangs and claws!) | |
On 6/14/01 5:41 pm LexyBitch wrote:
Do you think players (serious role-players) would play a game where the computer generates random names and assigns them to players? For a simple answer... this serious role-player would. The idea intrigues me. I wouldn't like it if every game were like that, but I love novelty. Z | |
**Having not read most of the other posts**
You could always do what some of the "Role-playing enforced" MUDs have started to do, recently or not. Have special races, provide all the information about them, but only let players who have proven themselves as someone who adds something to the game be allowed to play them. These special races tend to require stricter role-playing, assuming you have a role-playing game in the first place, so only allowing experienced players to use them would be the best way to go. | |
On 6/15/01 2:47 pm Foomer wrote:
**Having not read most of the other posts** This is basically just a more clear and concise iteration of some of the ideas we've been tossing back and force, but this does bring up a good point: Have special races, provide all the information about them ... Why necessarily provide all--or any--of the information about them? | |
I guess a better question would've been... are there enough serious roleplayers out there? :) I'm not even sure how many "enough" is... I'm hoping that my environment is intriguing enough that players will want to explore it anyway.
After reading all the posts here, I've decided upon a course. Each player will be able to choose between four randomly chosen character types (some are occupations, some are types of people, and some are supernatural beings or other races), four randomly generated names, and four randomly selected motivations/missions. The last won't be especially binding, but will determine what special information the player has about the world, and it gives them something to strive for until they figure out enough to choose a different course of action. Character type will be chosen first, for the simple reason that not all names and motivations will be appropriate for all characters. Also, players will have a little bit more control over their finished character, in that they'll be able to set particular details (age, appearance, occupational and secondary skills... although secondary skill choices will follow the pattern for the first three choices, with each player choosing from a randomly generated list) Anyways, somewhere way back there, this started as a response to Zil... so I'll also mention, I know you expressed interest in seeing this game before, but the code wasn't really working then... I've got it all hammered out now, though, so if you see me online, page me and I'll let you in. :) YAY!! Anagram! That's the word I was looking for! Do I get a gold star now? :) I'll split it with Guy!On 6/15/01 1:47 pm Zilal wrote: | |
I'm not sure how much this applies to Lexy's game or not, or to any other game that's actually being worked by someone who might be reading this discussion. And don't get me wrong--if you've got a game where the population is supposed to have a 12:5:3 ratio for humans, elves, and dwarves, this sort of system is probably the way to go. But for truly special, rare, unique, mysterious races and classes, I'd much rather have a system based on player merit. Those are my sentiments, too. I don't have extremely uncommon playable races, though; everyone gets to pick from a few humanoid species, and that's it. | |
On 6/15/01 4:50 pm LexyBitch wrote:
I guess a better question would've been... are there enough serious roleplayers out there? :) I'm not even sure how many "enough" is... I'm hoping that my environment is intriguing enough that players will want to explore it anyway. BYOND should get more roleplayers once I start advertising on my GS site. Which I am chomping at the bit to do at this point. The four-option thing sounds cool. I've got it all hammered out now, though, so if you see me online, page me and I'll let you in. :) Ooh. Z | |
Why not generate the names but allow the players to change it? If you wish to discourage renaming, try to penaltise the renaming. Maybe the relationships gained with NPC would be lost? Or maybe a fee penalty. That would be great, if my game had NPCs. Also, the ability to change one's name and effectively become a new person might work in fantasy games, but not in a gritty horror one. On the question on assigning race, why not just have a general race: called human. Then allow them to get cursed or trained to be something else. The cursing and training was something I thought about... after all, some of the special non-human classes I have represent things that were once human. But it wouldn't work for all of them, like demons and aliens... also, "training" to be a certain race, again, might work in some fantasy settings, but not in this one. Unless you just mean to training to be a special class in general, not necessarily a racial-based one. That's a little bit more do-able, except that the rarest classes are supposed to represent people who've spent a lifetime training to do something. | |
On 6/14/01 5:41 pm LexyBitch wrote:
Do you think players (serious role-players) would play a game where the computer generates random names and assigns them to players? I'm considering doing that for my new project... as the game works now, the computer generates a default name for your character, to "help" you pick a real-sounding name. (See post below, in babble) But since I made the system, I've been leaning towards enforcing the random names... have the computer give the player a list of three or four names, maybe, and let them pick from among those. I think it's a sledgehammer answer to the common cold... A better solution (imo) is to allow people to hit level 5 in certain areas until an administrator has been online to auth the name or deny it. If the name is denied, the person can change the name...can do so until it's authed. Once authed (thus a name that at least one of the admin in the game accepts), it's forever Another solution is to make the naming system manually-settable... Create a list of word extensions (perhaps randomly) and let players combine them... though..through all that, I admit there's a certain ugliness to it Many of us roleplayers have 'pet' characters.. Abraxas, for example, exists in every game I play. I've tossed out nice-seeming games if my name were taken and I was in a bad mood. Abraxas has been everything from a demon, to a mage, to a vampire, to..well, you get the drift... I usually keep similar personalities, but let each character build on its own... Yet....I get sick of creating new names, or equally sick of the idea of a name generator... Sadly... imagine a dwarf with all elf-names pushed on him, or an orc with all human names....or vice-versas Name generators, no matter how good, are never a good replacement for a good roleplayer... heck, even symbolic names (Stormraven, Tasslehoff, Bitterwish...etc) give strong sense of character...and are lost in name-generators | |
It's a complicated question...
As a new RPGer, when I found out that EverQuest would determine whether my chosen name was appropriate or not, and might not allow me to have it, I was really pissed. Enough that I might not have played if my friends weren't playing.
Then I learned what happens to RPGs if you don't enforce some naming conventions...that is UO happens, and ever other person is K00LDUDE4.
Once I understood the tradeoff, I was okay with it.
I think you will turn some people off if you do it...that doesn't mean you shouldn't try though. But you'll probably be more successful if you provide them with a rationale upfront so they understand why this is happening, and if you can somehow make the name selection an interesting part of the game.
Maybe they have a completely imposed name until they can complete a name quest, at which time they get to choose among a set of names?