Dec 18 2007, 11:26 am
In response to Danial.Beta
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Genjura
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Please don't Rip, Just eat a chip.
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Foomer wrote: More like a punishment for people who don't care enough to preview their posts before they're submitted to make sure everything is displayed right. Jamesburrow wrote: I honestly rarely hit the preview button, but considering I always look at my post immediately after hitting the post button, any glaring mistakes I make get fixed rather fast xD Same thing :P | |
Android Data wrote:
Wrong -- people aren't supposed to look for an indication that it's not supported, they're supposed to look for an indication that it is. Wrong -- When support of something is seen as the norm, not the exception, indication that it is supported is not required. If you're the exception, it should be clear that you are. This forum supports some popular html tags like font and italics, but also some non-standard tags, or obscure tags that most forum goers probably never even heard of. How many of you know that this forum supports the blockquote tag, or the code tag, as well as the unique dm tag we all use? None of those are indicated as being supported when you make a post, even though at least one of them is unique to this forum. You assume people would just know that html is supported, and ubbcode is not, even though there is no indication whatsoever during posting that either is supported. If they used, instead, an html tag that is not supported, would you jump on their case too? I doubt it. It's not that ubbcode is good or bad, or that a person doesn't check their post with preview, it's that you don't like ubbcode, because it makes you think of all the other forums out there, and who visits them. You see ubbcode, and think troll. Otherwise, I could equally say that this forum supports the "Shop" feature I saw in several SMF boards (notably on the SS13 forums) unless it says in posting help that it's not. Now if you'll excuse me, I have a bug report for the forums to make: I can't see the "shop" link. You also can't see the illogic of bashing people for not knowing something that is not even common knowledge among the majority of forum goers. | |
Lummox JR wrote:
It's a plenty bad assumption; the only reason the majority of forums support it is that the majority of forums are based on or inspired by phpBB. ubbcode is much older than even PHP itself. It's pretty common on just about every forum out there, and if you'd spent any time outside of this forum, you'd see just how prevalent it is. Heck, photobucket.com even gives you embed links in ubbcode, and it's an image hosting website. And each one of those tells you outright if BBcode and/or HTML support is turned on. The mere fact that someone can't see a "BBcode is on" indicator is enough not to assume it's supported. In every BBcode-using forum I've ever seen, it always tells you point blank while you're making the post whether BBcode is available. While phpBB forums do indicate what is and is not available, not all forums do. It's just as presumptuous to assume that as it is to assume someone should know where ubbcode works and where it doesn't. If anything, based on people's familiarity with such boards I'd expect them not to realize HTML was available here either, rather than to assume BBcode was. Since most forums don't support html, it's safer to assume ubbcode works than html. Anyway, it's moot because while the assumption is slightly understandable of a forum newbie, it's a pretty bad one from someone who's been posting for a while and has been around the forums enough. Unless they've never had a need to use html or ubbcode before... which you, again, assume. Either way though, supporting BBcode is no skin off my back. Then why bother decrying it's inclusion???? The problem is that I don't maintain the forum code; Tom does. And he has way too much other stuff on his plate, including another major forum upgrade as it happens. Maybe he'd decide to go ahead with it, and maybe not. Which would be the perfect opportunity for PirateHead to slip an update in. | |
Xooxer wrote:
If they used, instead, an html tag that is not supported, would you jump on their case too? I doubt it. I recall one time using "[][/]" instead of "<></>" and was scolded for doing so in a slightly same(yet less bashy) way. In EVERY forum I've encountered "[][/]" was the standard, and I got to tell you I've seen one hell of a lot of forums. This forum (not to mention the coding style) is different from other places, and I actually find it common for people to bash on others for not instantaneously becoming an all-knowing god of knowledge about the an unfamiliar place. Hell, I've looked around myself in general, and I haven't found a link telling me what this forum supports. Even if I did use the preview button to find out this forum doesn't support [][/] I wasn't aware of the <></> the forum used so I couldn't have tried process of elimination. And even THEN, its a forum post; opening up another browser, taking several minutes of time looking around for what this forum supports should not be how you go about things. It seems the only way of knowing without going on a long search is to ASK somebody how it is done. You know, purposely making a mistake is a good way to get a basher (who does more than bash) to tell you not only how asinine you are but tell you how things are done right. A lot easier if you ask me. | |
Well, obviously the non-rip badge would be pretty easy to just paste on a page, and doesn't do that much good.
Plus, how much of a rip is a rip? Is using one icon a rip? What if, instead, there was a 'mark as rip' button on a game, and if enough people clicked it, it would automatically place a warning on the hub "Warning: a significant amount of people have marked this game as a rip". Marking the rips, and not the non-rips would follow the rule of having non-rips the standard, not the exception. As for abuse, BYOND admins, or someone else appointed to the job could investiage whether games marked as rips are really rips (or people who have been falsely marked can request to have their game inspected and possibly cleared) It'd go alot farther to stopping rips if people were warned before they log in. | |
I imagine a system where votes that say this game is a rip adds one to the count, where votes that say the contrary take one from the count. That way, a majority rule thing could rule here.
Either that, or we could start an official guild that lists all the rips. On the hub page, it will say "This game is a rip." | |
CaptFalcon33035 wrote:
I imagine a system where votes that say this game is a rip adds one to the count, where votes that say the contrary take one from the count. That way, a majority rule thing could rule here. The majority of players will probably make it so that not many games are rips. I know...it sucks. Either that, or we could start an official guild that lists all the rips. On the hub page, it will say "This game is a rip." Has been suggested and turned down. George Gough | |
I agree. Whats funny though, is even those games that say on their hub that they are a rip ((Never in those words though, always saying something along the lines of "Thanks [whoever] for this source!")) still get players.
Come on people, if the original game is still around and getting updated, why play a rip? | |
KodeNerd wrote:
The majority of players will probably make it so that not many games are rips. I know...it sucks. I myself would go around clicking "this is a rip" even when I know it is not just to piss people off and prove to them how faulty the idea is. It's like the ranking system, the number 1 ranking game in all of the anime guild could EASILY be the single WORST game in the history of ever. Just as easily as that would happen, people could just as easily click "this is a rip" on absolutely every single game they could find. Idea denied. | |
I myself would go around clicking "this is a rip" even when I know it is not just to piss people off and prove to them how faulty the idea is. Well, the listings would be controlled by the guild owner, and hopefully that guy will have some sense. I've actually been considering it for a while. Just as easily as that would happen, people could just as easily click "this is a rip" on absolutely every single game they could find. Idea denied. That's the idea behind using a vote. I doubt that the majority of the community is like that. | |
CaptFalcon33035 wrote:
Just as easily as that would happen, people could just as easily click "this is a rip" on absolutely every single game they could find. Idea denied. Most of the players on Byond play rips, so yes they probably are like that. George Gough | |
Chessmaster_19 wrote:
What if, instead, there was a 'mark as rip' button on a game, and if enough people clicked it, it would automatically place a warning on the hub "Warning: a significant amount of people have marked this game as a rip". Gads no. The overwhelming reason BYOND Staff doesn't police rips right now is that no one has the time to do it. Investigating whether a game is a rip is something only the fans could properly do, and even then it's usually not clear who ripped whom. It'd be trivial for a rip's author to recruit tons of players to click the button on the original, too. What you're basically suggesting is that BYOND Staff start checking out rips again, but with users providing tips on what to check out--which is no different from how it ever worked before, really, only now we'd have to go the extra mile of clearing falsely accused games instead of just holding back in the case of ambiguity. It will not happen. Most of BYOND Staff are volunteers who are using spare time here and there to clean up the community. BYOND carries a professional staff of exactly one programmer, who has no time to spend investigating this stuff, and Tom certainly doesn't have the time or inclination either. Brainstorm all you like, but I think it's been made abundantly clear by now that any solution to rips that involves the staff is totally off the table. You can volunteer your own time, not mine. Meanwhile, the easiest way to combat rips is to form and join guilds that list only original games as favorites. Lummox JR | |
You're wrong. You can't make any claims like that because you don't know the majority of the BYOND population. While there are certainly more people in a rip than any given game, those just happen to be the people who have time to play their little anime game all day. I disagree.
I think that most of the BYOND population (meaning even the oldbies who don't come back as often) prefers games that aren't rips and they tend to have less time than that of the less mature rip audience to play games on BYOND. What's more is that while there may be less players on a game that isn't a rip as opposed to one that is, the game that isn't probably has a more diverse playerbase who doesn't have the same players online all the time, but a more consistent player count of different players. And don't forget all the people that left because of the overload of rips. That's my opinion. | |
I see this scenario playing out:
AnimeFan43: Hey give me GM or I'm going to mark you as a rip!!!1 l33tMaster: No way. AnimeFan43: Fine then! I'm going to get everyone I know to mark your game as a rip!!!!111 (later that day, in the Developer Forum) Community Forum Subject: I need mod help! Body: "There's this guy named AnimeFan43 and he says that he is going to report my game as a rip becuz I wouldn't giv him GM!!!11" (minutes later) First Reply: "Sorry, there is nothing we can do about your game." | |
Xooxer wrote:
Don't rip n00bs, rip dip lip chip sip tip pip. And don't forget your mom. You, Sir Xooxer, are an enigma... | |
PirateHead wrote:
Anyway, why encourage people not to actually pay attention to things like the fact that not every forum supports BBcode, or that there's a preview button? I agree with this the most. There's a preview button. It's not hard to find your post after you make it. If people aren't looking at the stuff they're posting to the site, they should be smacked anyways. I always make it a habit to give a short proofread to all of my posts, at the least. The principal of least surprise has always been a good one to follow in software design. Many people expect that BBcode will work It's a small world, and a small part of the small world uses BBcode. At some point, these guys need to realize that they can't run around everywhere and tack in some of that junk. Next we'll have people trying to use BBcode in Notepad, or in cell-phone text messages (hehe). The shock is inevitable, and BYOND is a place of learning; hence, this is perfectly reasonable. Another small matter might be the already-cumbersome downtimes of the BYOND site. Though a simple conversion function wouldn't really add to these (I should hope), I think it seems best to try and give the site as small a list of chores as possible so that it can (eventually, hopefully) stop dying on everyone. :) and we could surprise them less by automatically converting their BBcode to the corresponding HTML before processing the submission. Worse, when they finally reach the shock-point, we would have other software developers shaking their fists at BYOND as the users say "BYOND supports BBcode, so you should as well!" Do I make a good case for inclusion of that feature? I personally don't think there is a good case for BBcode. I haven't liked it since I first met it. ^^ Hiead | |
Foomer wrote:
Foomer wrote: I always preview, GameFAQs (previews required, optional spellcheck) was my first message board. =) | |