All Your Base - Art Obsession?

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Jun 9 2012, 11:35 am
The cool way to have a base icon is to assign an artist to spend their time on it while you make your game using a blue rectangle icon. :D
Jun 9 2012, 12:51 pm
In response to Solomn Architect
Solomn Architect wrote:
Scyrus123 wrote:
What I meant was, if you want to feel the game completely, play and have fun, don't just dress up and after collecting all of the fuckin dresses already...then you quit?! fuckin manners

We're not talking about what the players are doing. If a player wants to stand around and dress up their character, that's their way of Roleplaying and you can't really criticize them for doing that, especially if their character is Obsessive Compulsive about their outfit or whatnot. If a player chooses to dress-up their character, they're obviously having fun with it. The point of a game is to entertain the player, not have them play the game exactly how you want them to.

I think that's also part of the problem. "Developers" are making games for themselves when they should be making games for the players.

Forum_Account wrote:
[...] what are the odds that 1,000 teenage first-time game developers could be wrong about how to develop computer games? Pretty darn good!

No one can really argue with any points in your last post. They're all pretty much true.

that explains everything.... so it would be better for them to stay on the safe zone area and leave their character's stats, and focus more on dress up
Jun 9 2012, 6:22 pm (Edited on Jun 9 2012, 6:27 pm)
In response to Scyrus123
Scyrus123 wrote:
that explains everything.... so it would be better for them to stay on the safe zone area and leave their character's stats, and focus more on dress up

Not to be rude or anything, but if a player is playing your game while still following the rules, why the hell should you care what they're doing? Last time I checked, you didn't make the decisions on what other players do or find fun. There is no better, players play how they want, and you lashing out at the ones who enjoy dress-up games just makes you look like an asshole.
Jun 9 2012, 8:30 pm
In response to Solomn Architect
Solomn Architect wrote:
Scyrus123 wrote:
that explains everything.... so it would be better for them to stay on the safe zone area and leave their character's stats, and focus more on dress up

Not to be rude or anything, but if a player is playing your game while still following the rules, why the hell should you care what they're doing? Last time I checked, you didn't make the decisions on what other players do or find fun. There is no better, players play how they want, and you lashing out at the ones who enjoy dress-up games just makes you look like an asshole.

did I even disagreed to your statement?lol I suggest you start reading the ''TOPIC'' from the first page... It may change your mind ^^
Jun 10 2012, 12:40 am
I imagine part of this is that those who know what they're doing tend to do one of two things:

1. Work in the large communities that have multiple coders, iconners and designers and thus produce one game and stick with it.

2. Once you know what you're doing with BYOND, it's very easy to drift off and try other, harder projects on different platforms.

This would generally result in a lack of people who know what they're doing working on new games :P

And I agree with what was said above, new icons is not a new game. That's probably why the majority of the reiconned games have few to no players :P
Jun 11 2012, 3:58 pm
You build around a base when it comes to the art aspect of design, quit complaining about the surplus of them if you want "originality".
Jun 11 2012, 5:15 pm
In response to UPD4T3
UPD4T3 wrote:
quit complaining about the surplus of them if you want "originality".

Bit of a paradox, isn't that?
Jun 11 2012, 7:05 pm
In response to Complex Robot
Complex Robot wrote:
UPD4T3 wrote:
quit complaining about the surplus of them if you want "originality".

Bit of a paradox, isn't that?

I aim to make one ponder and wonder.
Jun 11 2012, 10:39 pm
In response to UPD4T3
UPD4T3 wrote:
Complex Robot wrote:
UPD4T3 wrote:
quit complaining about the surplus of them if you want "originality".

Bit of a paradox, isn't that?

I aim to make one ponder and wonder.

I don't think it takes much pondering to realize that:
1. wanting originality
and
2. complaining about all the games being same
are much the same thing.
Jun 12 2012, 8:57 am
In response to Complex Robot
I was making a statement about how everyone continues to complain about the excess of bases, yet complains about originality.

If everyone was original, they'd find something else to complain about.
Jun 12 2012, 4:26 pm
In response to UPD4T3
Apparently you missed the memo that we are talking about originality in games.
Jun 12 2012, 4:58 pm
In response to Complex Robot
Complex Robot wrote:
Apparently you missed the memo that we are talking about originality in games.

And I'm staying clear, and talking about the main topic: "All Your Base - Art Obsession".
Jun 12 2012, 5:04 pm
In response to UPD4T3
The main topic is about games.
Jun 12 2012, 5:44 pm
In response to Complex Robot
Complex Robot wrote:
The main topic is about games.

My apologies.
Jun 13 2012, 8:22 am
comparing Eternia or Spirit age to Epic kinda unfair. for one the work for epic is most procedurally generated.
Jun 13 2012, 8:35 am
In response to Zane444
Zane444 wrote:
comparing Eternia or Spirit age to Epic kinda unfair. for one the work for epic is most procedurally generated.

I don't think any of it is procedurally generated. Yut Put is a content-generating machine but only metaphorically =)

Even if you take out whatever content might be generated, Epic still has way more gameplay and content than many other games that have been in development for much longer (not just the two games I mentioned). When you understand what parts of the game are important and prioritize tasks accordingly, games can take shape very quickly.
Jun 13 2012, 8:51 am
Actually a lot is procedurally generated dungeons and maps vs hand placed tiles and uniquely crafted maps. armor and weapons are added to a single direction and then rotated via a proc. where we're doing overlays the old fashioned way of going over every animation. there's also the issue of quality and I myself am kinda obsessed on perfection.

Content is a lot easier to add to EPIC and doesn't take nearly as much work as Eternia or SpiritAge, hence its short development time. I will admit that both games rely heavy on aesthetics which consume most of the development time. In my opinion. you also have to consider the faults of collaborating with other users. Yut Put did all of the work himself,used libraries if I'm not mistaken.

Jun 13 2012, 9:24 am (Edited on Jun 13 2012, 9:46 am)
In response to Forum_account
Forum_account wrote:
I can't figure out how games like Eternia and Spirit Age have been in development for so long and are so incomplete, but a game like Epic has been more playable, more fun, and has had more content after just a month or two.

Well, I wouldn't agree with Epic being more fun. I personally enjoyed Sprit Age's testing much more than I did Epic's. I feel that Spirit Age has a more professional set-up and the PvP was much more engaging whereas Epic seems like a basic dungeon crawler. Both games have appeal to them though and are worth playing.

Addressing the content, that's probably because it can take anywhere from 3-5 hours just to draw an outfit for Eternia, and who knows how long it takes for SA. This is $30-50 per outfit if you're commissioning an artist. Clothing overlays do not take less than five minutes if you want said overlays to look good, nor is there anything wrong with desiring aesthetic customization. I'm sure that myself and Zane understood the amount of commitment a simple thing like overlays can require in projects such as ours.

The games are too different to compare like this, really. There is nothing wrong with wanting Spirit Age's and Eternia's level of aesthetic customization nor is there any harm in adopting a similar approach as Epic did. At the time of writing this, Eternia has roughly ~100 pieces of equipment and that number will continue to rise until its release. Sure, it's taking a hell of a lot longer, but it looks a lot cooler in-game; I wouldn't be content with a few frames on a simplistic sprite and I'm sure there are others that would prefer it like this.
Jun 13 2012, 9:42 am
In response to Zane444
Zane444 wrote:
Actually a lot is procedurally generated dungeons and maps vs hand placed tiles and uniquely crafted maps. armor and weapons are added to a single direction and then rotated via a proc.

I'm pretty sure the dungeons are hand-made by Blazekid. Also, using procs to rotate objects isn't the same as "procedural generation". Every game uses existing procs to move mobs around the screen. That doesn't mean they're procedurally generating anything, they're just making good use of what BYOND provides. BYOND is a game development tool. If you use it right, game development can be very easy. If game development is tough, you're probably not using it right.

used libraries if I'm not mistaken.

There's nothing shameful about using libraries. It means he's using BYOND properly.

I will admit that [Spirit Age and Eternia] rely heavy on aesthetics which consume most of the development time.

The games we're talking about here are 99% the same. It's not like we're comparing a text-based game to a graphical one. There's nothing about Spirit Age that makes it rely on aesthetics any more than a game like Epic. Those games rely on aesthetics because the developers made that a priority. As I said in my last comment:

When you understand what parts of the game are important and prioritize tasks accordingly, games can take shape very quickly.

When you make things like aesthetics the highest priority, it's easy to spend 6-12 months on a project that goes nowhere. When you don't have much gameplay you can spend 6 months tweaking the interface and never be happy with it. It's just a bad way to prioritize things. When things go wrong they can really go wrong.

If, instead of tweaking the interface for 6 months, you took the time to build the rest of the game out, you'd find that the other details (like the interface) have a way of coming together on their own. Once there's a game to play it'll be obvious how the interface should work and you'll save development time on both parts. The faster you get things working, the more motivated you'll be. The sooner you can post something that people can play, the sooner you'll get feedback and that'll give you more motivation. When things go right they can really go right.
Jun 13 2012, 9:50 am
Forum_account wrote:
When you make things like aesthetics the highest priority, it's easy to spend 6-12 months on a project that goes nowhere.

I really don't get (nor do I like) how you've came to assume that we've decided to prioritize overlays in place of other things. It's just another aspect of the graphics and that's that. Less time has been spent on overlays than pretty much everything for Eternia because it's the last development objective.

Maybe you missed the tilesets, the monsters, and the spells, because they were all drawn before the character overlays and took a lot of effort and time as well. Not that overlays are of a lesser importance; all are needed for the world to be fun.
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