Jul 12 2012, 2:52 pm
|
|
Kaiochao
  |
If they're banning people so often, it amazes me even more that SS13's the most popular BYOND game. I never cared for it back in 2005 and I still can't get into its gameplay.
|
As a designer if your game is so broken that you need complain about BYOND's supposed limitations in order to save face, that's a strong indication that you suck. If BYOND was so ill-suited for the task of creating SS13, then it's the designer's own stupid fault for deciding to create his game on such a "shitty, laggy platform" in the first place.
For SS13 in particular, the game's homepage url "donglabs.com" should have been a pretty clear sign that you weren't dealing with the most intelligent or mature folks around. You should just ignore them and move on to better games. | |
What a lovely website.
Yea NEStaglia is a pretty good game, if you have time to play it that is.. | |
If I had known BYOND's limitations (and the consequences of them) from the beginning, I might have started learning something much more capable at 10 years old instead. What happens with games that take too many suggestions or go open-source is, the community ends up wanting lots of cool features. A lot of "cool" features are the ones that BYOND does poorly, I think. Not all, of course, just some that rely highly on the GPU.
| |
Kaiochao wrote:
A lot of "cool" features are the ones that BYOND does poorly, I think. Not all, of course, just some that rely highly on the GPU. BYOND's strong suit isn't stuff like particles effects or advanced graphics, but that's pretty obvious from the get-go. I'm not sure what you mean by "features", but in all of my years of creating games with BYOND I've been able to find ways to implement pretty much everything that I've wanted to in terms of gameplay. It's most often a matter of planning and motivation rather than a question of what BYOND can or can't do. Any BYOND developer hung up on the lack of graphical bells and whistles is missing the boat, as most of the rest of the indie world is creating gameplay-focused experiences and steaming forward without you. | |
Kaiochao wrote:
If I had known BYOND's limitations (and the consequences of them) from the beginning, I might have started learning something much more capable at 10 years old instead. What happens with games that take too many suggestions or go open-source is, the community ends up wanting lots of cool features. A lot of "cool" features are the ones that BYOND does poorly, I think. Not all, of course, just some that rely highly on the GPU. If you were 10 years old when you started, then BYOND was probably the best platform for you because, unlike other languages, it actually allows you to make a game with code but not a lot of complexity. Starting with C+++ or java or even flash at that age would likely be an exercise in frustration. If you feel that BYOND is too limiting for you now, knowing more, then it is never too late to learn something else. I encourage people to find the right tool for the job. I never said BYOND did everything... but I do think it does fit a niche for casual multiplayer games and those just so happen to be something that, even in 2012, have yet to really take off. There is always going to be a tradeoff for what BYOND provides because it is a server-based language. In a way, though, I believe that limiting the graphics actually aids developers because it (in theory) causes them to focus on the gameplay as opposed to building 3D models. There are a lot of crappy games with amazing graphics. | |
I originally came on BYOND to play games without learning DM (since I was aiming for C++ at the time). However, BYOND itself made it easier to start work on multiplayer games that I actually began to learn DM. "Text City Simulator" was one of my earliest attempts along with a never finished project called "The Industry Wars". The former was going to be different from the BASIC (through QBASIC) version I made (it was just slightly before I joined BYOND), but decided to port it to make learning it easier. Could also say that the never released "The Industry Wars" project aided in some way with DM programming.
True there are limitations to BYOND as I have come across over the years (which some have been lifted due to upgrades). The 3D limitation I can understand since dealing with 3D can actually complicate things for newer programmers (though DarkBASIC is capable of such tasks with a syntax that is supposed to be similar to BASIC). Regardless of having experience with C++ (Since 2004, though my father bought me a book in 2002 that came with Microsoft Visual C++ Introductory Edition. That disc was cracked a bit later, causing me to delay a bit in C++ learning till I heard from another BYONDer about Dev C++. This was before there were any Visual C++ Express Editions.), I still play with DM to try out new things and sometimes even integrate C++ with DM for certain projects. And Tom is right, I have encountered poor games with eyecandy graphics. What matters more is gameplay, though graphics do have some impact if done right. | |
I have been able to get more into other games (only Eternia, really cool), I'm trying NEStalgia now.
| |
I think the gameplay v graphics is personal choice on the developers part.
| |
Also you're changing the topic, we were supposed to talk about Space Station 13.
| |
You say it has a horrible community. So don't play it. Simple as that. There's no reason for BYOND to get involved with a game that isn't breaking any rules.
| |
Yes yes, this thread hasn't been posted in for awhile, but I'm still going to throw in my input.
True, many of the members of the SS13 community are un-savory, but that doesn't mean all of them are. a good 1/3 of the ENTIRE community, not just one server, is actually really cool. Another third is okay, and the last one has all the unsavory folk. Also: Needicla probably hates SS13 because he was banned from nearly every server with a player count higher then 10. | |
Silk Games wrote:
As a designer if your game is so broken that you need complain about BYOND's supposed limitations in order to save face, that's a strong indication that you suck. If BYOND was so ill-suited for the task of creating SS13, then it's the designer's own stupid fault for deciding to create his game on such a "shitty, laggy platform" in the first place. It's amazing how condescending you can be. | |
Madow wrote:
Silk Games wrote: He's fairly right. Alot of things people blame on Byond are simply poor programming practices. Lack of efficiency, lack of foresight, lack of resource handling,etc. There's tons of things that can potentially contribute to having "a laggy piece of sh*t" that inexperienced programmers and newbies wouldn't even consider. | |
Personally, I don't see what everyone gets from playing SS13. I, personally, think it's a horrible game. Poorly programmed with poor art, and not just with the 'modders' that further add to that factor. I have had several people I used to play with on several games(granted, mostly just fangames and several years back) that tried constantly to get me into SS13 and I gave it a few tries but just couldn't get into it. I agree with A.T.H.K.'s suggestion to just find something else to play. Though, this is a older post and I don't think that these post are gonna hold up against moderators.
| |
I feel the same way i just don't get it but there must be something to it 302 player were on today
| |
Saying that BYOND is a shit platform is such a cop-out. If you are worth your salt you know exactly what limitations are present on any platform you use and you dont design a game that doesnt work well in a given circumstance. BYOND does a lot of different game types well. If you need a high FPS response time because your combat system is very sensitive and people can kill you in a split second, then what the hell are you doing on a platform which is entirely server-side and not optimized for high player counts.
| |